#2460 - Rachel Wilson

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [00:12] Hello, Joe. What's happening? Hello, Joe. Very nice to see you again. Good to see you. So when your husband Andrew came in here, he told me about your book, and then I talked to you, and you seemed very interesting, and you gave me a little... [00:23] brief synopsis of it. And so then I listened to it on audio tape and it's fucking crazy. And it is the occult feminism, the secret history of women's liberation. I didn't really have much of an opinion on feminism. My opinion was unfortunately you run into some feminists that just seemed to not like men for whatever reason. And there's a lot of people in this world that aren't happy with their position or station in life, but [00:53] I didn't really think too much into how this all got started. [00:57] Until I listened to your book and I'm like this is kind of bonkers. So before we get into your book like how did you? Decide to write about this like what what was your little journey? Oh, a big journey. Yeah, it's kind of a big journey. So When I was growing up, I was like a in all the advanced kid classes and from the time I was in like kindergarten It was just pounded into my head like you're going to college. You're going to have a career and [01:24] You know, you're smart and you have to do something with that. It was like the only option that was put before me. And so I followed that path like all the way through school. And by the time I got done with 12 years of regular school, I realized a couple of things. One is school is not where you go to learn things. School isn't this. Public school is not so great for smart people.

[01:44] for the most part, and that I really didn't like. Like another four years of school just sounded like hell to me. And I really just wanted to get married and have kids. That's kind of what I always wanted to do. [01:57] Much to the horror of my Marxist feminist mother, who did not like that. Oh, you were indoctrinated at an early age. Well, she tried, but I was the why kid. I was the kid that's just like, why? Why? [02:09] Why? But why? And I had like, [02:12] A Rush Limbaugh dad. [02:14] Wow. Yeah, they got divorced. Shocker. Who could have seen it coming? So they got divorced when I was like nine. So I grew up in like two worlds. I had like Republican business owner Rush Limbaugh dad and I had Marxist feminist crazy mom. Was the mom always Marxist feminist? And was the dad always like a Rush Limbaugh Republican? Yep. How did they fall in love? How did all that happen? They didn't. I was an accident. Oh, so they just fall in lust. [02:44] and my dad said that when he saw me he was like well i don't want anybody else right like this is the only thing that matters to me so i'm gonna make this work and he tried his best how did they even hook up with such radically different ideologies i don't think they were talking about that sort of thing when they got together they were probably hanging out at a bar oh so they didn't really know each other very well not really no they were kind of like they worked in

[03:14] Yeah. Yeah. So, [03:16] I had divorced parents. Yeah. It was really rough because my mother, like, hated my dad. She could never tell you anything he did wrong. [03:26] It was just like he's an evil white patriarchist. [03:30] bad bad republican man one of my earliest memories is them fighting over the bush dukakis election in 88 and like threatening to lock each other in the house so that the one couldn't cancel the other one's vote yeah i know fun it was fun was this before after kitty dukakis drank mouthwash or what did she drink she drank something like that aftershave or mouthwash to try to get drunk [03:55] Yeah, she with the pressure of the election must have been so insane. And this is pre social media. Right. And this lady was already struggling with like alcoholism. And I think she was hospitalized for drinking alcohol. [04:10] Something that was not a drink. Well, can you find out what that was? It was really crazy, right? Remember, do you remember that? I just remember that whole election being... [04:19] Pretty nuts, like as far as like the Democrats versus Republicans. And this was when Democrats were more like how Republicans are right now. They weren't like super insane. The caucus tried to ride in a tank. [04:29] to make everybody think he was like a pro-war tough guy. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. [04:33] Yeah, and I remember reading my lips, no new taxes and all that stuff. So like I had this going on like as a kid. So I think my brain was already thinking about this sort of stuff from the time I was little. Rubbing alcohol. Oh, that's crazy. Nail polish remover. Oh my God. She drank nail polish remover.

[04:55] Holy shit. She couldn't just huff paint like normal person? Very open about her struggles with alcohol and addiction to amphetamines. [05:04] to reduce the stigma surrounding these issues, later detailing these experiences in her books. [05:09] Huh. [05:10] okay yeah so my parents were like ready to kill each other over that and so they divorced [05:15] Right after that, they divorced. And so I'd spend time with dad and I'd spend time with mom and I had two completely different [05:22] realities and worldviews and I think growing up like that you're trying to sort out what's true. You're trying to figure out like is there any merit to what [05:30] mom's saying the world is or any merit to what dad's saying the world is. And I think dad was more persuasive and better at pulling me his direction because I never really absorbed. Like, I always thought Marxism was, you know, faking gay and stupid. I just never bought into it at all. Why at an early age did you think that? [05:50] Because I already had seen that, you know, we're not all... [05:54] born equal with equal things and some people work much harder. Some people have natural gifts and talents. And to think that, because my mother would literally say stuff in the house like, [06:05] from, you know, from each person according to their ability to each person according to their need. And I was like, [06:12] Even when I do that in class, like if there's a group project, everybody wants me on their team because I'm the smart kid who's going to do the homework. I end up doing everything and everybody else gets the A, even though I did everything. So those are the people that are really into socialism. People that have fast stuff. Yes. Yeah. And so like from being a little kid, I even noticed like, no, things aren't equal and things aren't always fair. And it depends on, you know, your natural skills and abilities and then what you do with those things.

[06:42] talented, really intelligent person, but she was so emotionally chaotic, she never... [06:47] applied them to anything. She never really got anywhere or did anything. She had big dreams of what she thought she should have and never really got there because she was so emotionally unregulated and kind of chaotic. [07:00] I just kind of saw that, no, there's not this like thing where you can just even the playing field and make it all equal for everyone. That's not how it worked. [07:08] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+. [07:28] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [07:39] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know – [07:54] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-level

[08:24] best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [08:37] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. [09:07] Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest. Grilled steak, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [09:27] There's also a thing that if you're locked up in something like Marxism, you if that's your ideology, you're in this constant struggle with the rest of the world all the time where you want to bend it to your ideology. You want to change it. And so even if you're a very intelligent person, your daily mindset is struggle. Your daily mindset is conflict and existential crisis.

[09:57] the picture that was laid in front of me. Yeah, it's such a trap. I go to dad's house and he's like, [10:02] He started a business after the divorce and he's like hustling. He's working 12 to 14 hour days. He's [10:08] doing everything he can to make it work. He's not complaining. He's just like, this is what you got to do. If you want to make it, if you want to, you know, do your own thing and prove that, you know, you're good at what you do, you have to compete. You have to get out there. You have to work hard. Why complain about it? And then my mom's whole world was, she ended up being very bitter and resentful because it was like this view of, but I deserved this. That should have been me. I got [10:32] whatever reason. And often it was like, [10:35] If I was more attractive, you know, the men at work would have given me a raise if I looked like the other woman in the office or something, you know. So it was like this bitter, resentful. She was kind of like at war with the world. So seeing those two things, neither of my parents are perfect. Who is? Who has perfect parents? But it was kind of like. [10:55] I'd rather play over here where there's a purpose for me working hard and giving it my best shot and trying in life and figuring out what's important to me and then tailoring, you know, all my efforts toward that. And I just... [11:09] thought that having a family was so cool. And I wanted to have the family I didn't have. So I had this dream of getting married, having kids, having an intact family, and making it like a... [11:23] place [11:24] where kids can grow up without all the screaming and yelling and chaos that I had, and that a lot of kids have nowadays. So, um...

[11:32] Didn't go to college. I had a full ride scholarship and I didn't go, which everybody thought was the end of the world. It was like, how could you do that? Your life is over. You'll never be anything. And I was kind of like... [11:43] We'll see. You know, it is very weird that we're convinced that the only way to get educated is by an official institution with all the information that's available now. I mean, even back then, like that's the whole premise of Goodwill hunting. Like you can get very smart from a public library. You really don't need. It's just the books are available for everyone. The information is available for everyone. If you chase it down, it's not like the only people that get any information are the ones who go to these colleges. [12:13] the education like we can just educate everyone the problem is we're not educated enough and if everyone had enough access to education everyone would be intelligent everyone would be thriving it's like the internet's kind of proved this i had a teacher it's not an information problem right i had a teacher in high school that said something i don't know if this is his quote or he was quoting someone else but he said education is something that allows you to get along without intelligence and intelligence is something that allows you to get along without education i like [12:43] I was like, oh, I get it. There's certain people that are just dumb at certain things. Like I remember being around intelligent people that had no knowledge of how a car worked, of any of the workings of a car. You would tell – well, this was back in the spark plug days. You could explain to them like, oh, one of the cables for your spark plug got loose. You're only firing on five cylinders. The whole six is not – that's why it's like shaking like that. Who? Who?

[13:13] was anything else, if you're talking about the economy, if you're talking about the political process, that guy would think the other guy was a moron. But now this guy thinks he's a moron. I remember being like auto shop class going, there's a lot of different kinds of intelligence. We've just done this weird thing where we've categorized, like, you have to go to specific schools. You have to go to the, you got to get a degree. Everybody wanted to go to Ivy League schools. I lived in Boston. It was like, very important. Did you get a [13:43] and they were all fucking miserable. Well, my dad said this to me. He was the only person that when I graduated, I said, I don't. [13:51] think I want to [13:52] go to college for this. I don't think that's what I want to do. Like any of the things I'm looking at when I think about like having a career in that thing. [14:01] I'm not very excited about it. I don't, [14:03] I don't get like, ooh, hyped up to go do this. I was like, I really just kind of want to, you know, maybe someday, but I would love to have a bunch of kids and stuff. And my dad was like, you know, a lot of the people in my office have degrees and, you know, they have careers. And some of them are very miserable people. So if you don't want to do that. [14:21] He's like, you could always decide to go later. So I was like, I kind of like bargained with everyone. I was like, I'm just going to give it a year. I do that too. Yeah. And if I feel like I want to go to college after a year of no high school, then I'll go. You know, I could still do it. [14:36] But I ended up having a baby at 20. [14:39] Which again was the end of the world. Oh my God, Rachel, your life is over. You'll never be anything. You'll never do anything. It's over for you. It's such a tragedy. It was like treated like this horrible thing. And I thought it was great.

[14:53] And when I had her, the job that I had [14:57] Did not matter to me anymore at all. It seemed so stupid. It was like anybody can go. I was a hairstylist at the time. Anybody can go do haircuts. [15:05] Someone else can cut Debbie's hair, but only I can be her mom. I want to do that. And everybody was telling me, you have to go back to work. You have to go back to work. That's what we do now. [15:16] Two weeks after the baby's born, you've got to go back to work. You need the money. You need the security. You need the income. [15:22] And I looked around and thought, [15:24] This [15:25] is insane. Like, who came up with this system because... [15:29] I am going to go drop her off. [15:31] at two weeks old. [15:33] And let some lady who doesn't know or care about or love my baby the way that I do take care of her all day long. You know, if you factor in the commute, it's like nine, nine and a half hours that I'm away from her. By the time I get home and feed her and give her a bath, it'll be bedtime. [15:49] And that'll be it. I'll get like maybe two hours with my baby all day, you know, and I get to pay half of what I make. [15:58] to this other random person to raise my child. [16:02] "Who came up with this? This is stupid." And I have to pay taxes, you know, and I have to have a second vehicle and insurance and a work wardrobe. And I just thought, [16:11] This is the most inefficient [16:13] stupid [16:14] system and everyone around me is like this is this is good this is what we all need to do even like christian conservative women that were friends and family members were like well you don't want to depend on a man because then you're going to get abused they fear-mongered me to death about staying home

[16:32] with my kids. [16:34] And at the time, this was my high school boyfriend who I had my first child with because I was kind of a libertarian at this stage. And both my parents at this point, my parents have multiple divorces between the two of them. And I always I know I always heard, oh, marriage is just a piece of paper. What really matters is that you love each other and that sort of thing. And I'd known this guy since we were kids. We we'd known each other forever. We'd been together for a long time. So I thought this was great. And I. [17:02] My goal was, let's get us to the point where I can stay home and be like a full-time mom. [17:08] And he had stuff going on. It did not work out. He took off. [17:12] devastating, horrible, terrible for me. No big fights, no cheating, nothing like that. [17:18] um, [17:18] He's a private person, so I don't want to tell his business, but he had his own personal things going on and left. [17:25] And it was back to work. I had to work and be a working mom, and I didn't like that. And I still thought that there was something wrong here, but I hadn't really looked into... [17:36] Where do we get this idea that women must be working? [17:39] my grandma didn't work bless her soul by the way she is going to be turning 100 april 1st my grandma who's still with us and she's probably my ace in the hole and the reason i kind of turned out normal despite my chaotic family upbringing because she was super grounded nice christian lady [17:55] only in eighth grade education, but she knew how to do everything. She'd go up back and like, pluck a chicken, cook it up for dinner, can everything in the garden, preserve all the food. And she had more done by 8am than most human beings on earth. So I had like,

[18:10] Grandma as a pillar to really help me through this stuff. So shout out, Grandma. Which is work. [18:16] Yeah. It's housework. Yeah. Yeah. Which is like really important. Like it has to get done. Yeah. And most people think someone else should do that. Yeah. I need to be in an office. Yeah. This is for wages, like low, low paid wage people to do. I need to be doing something important. But I always thought she was really important. She was super important to me because when, you know, my parents were off doing whatever they were doing, I'd always get dumped at grandma's. So I spent a ton of time with her growing up. [18:46] And like I said, she knew how to do everything. Like her practical skills were crazy. She can cook anything. She can clean anything. She can can and preserve food. She grew up during the Great Depression. She was born in 1928. Oh, wow. Yeah. And she had been through some stuff. Like she lost her husband to cancer. She lost her daughter to kidney disease. Like she had been through it. So she had a lot of like good advice and wisdom. And she'd always say, I wish I was smart like you. I wish I was smart like you and I could go to school and stuff like that. But I thought. [19:16] Grandma, you're the only person that knows what the hell they're doing. You're the only person in my world who seems to know what they're doing. The grass is always greener. When you're looking at a woman that's entering into the workforce, who's really intelligent, you start thinking, oh, she's going to have a career. She's going to be a CEO someday. Everyone's going to respect her. And while that person's on pills and suicidal and can't sleep and...

[19:42] Well, we're going to get into that. We're going to get into, I'm sure, like how it's turned out for women. Pushing them into the workforce, telling them they can have it all and how they're dealing with that. But I didn't deal with it well. When I was at work, I felt like I should be at home and I was missing my kids and like I was really failing on the home front. And when I was at home, I felt like I should be giving more to work and I felt constantly torn. And that's something I hear from pretty much every woman I talk to. [20:08] who has kids and a job, that it's really tough, that you always feel like... [20:13] you're not able to give enough to each thing. You just can't spread yourself that thin all the time. And I think it's bad advice. I think we give women backwards advice. I think we tell them, spend all your fertile years. [20:25] All your youth. [20:26] building a career, going to school and building a career. [20:29] Then by the time you're like 30, 35, and you've got all that established, then you can think about getting married and having kids. [20:39] you better find somebody quick and get on it because you got a handful of years left. Yeah. You know, and you might need IVF and all these other things. And a lot of women struggle. And it's one of the it's actually nobody wants to talk about this. This is the conversation no one's ready for. Women's access to higher education is the number one correlate. [20:58] around the world, regardless of economics, race, culture, status, anything, to falling birth rates. [21:05] Wow. So it turns out that when you push young women that it's – [21:11] Education, career, education, career.

[21:13] Because why? Why do we tell them that? [21:15] Otherwise, you're at the mercy of a man, and he'll abuse you. He'll take advantage. He knows that you depend on him, so you've got to do that. If you feel a little off, it's okay. It's February. Everybody feels a little off in February. It's darker. It's colder. You probably already gave up on some New Year's resolutions. But you don't have to wait until spring to get yourself right again. It all starts with making small changes to your routine, and one of those is AG1. It's not some big dramatic reset. [21:45] when everything else is chaos. One scoop, done. AG1 can help support your energy, your gut health, and can support you through the darker evenings. It gives that foundational support from morning to night, and it all comes down to getting your daily nutrition. There's more than 75 ingredients, including antioxidants, minerals, probiotics, and functional mushrooms to support your immune health and overall health. And this is the time of year when it can really help. [22:15] Go to drinkag1.com slash Rogan and you'll get three AG1 travel packs, vitamin D3 plus K2 and other gifts free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's drinkag1.com slash Rogan. Isn't there also a practical consideration for a lot of people? Because the cost of living is very different now than it was, like say in the 1950s or 1960s. It's very difficult for a lot of people to get by on one income.

[22:45] Have you ever asked why that is? [22:48] I have, but I'd love to hear you talk about it. So prior to the 1970s, [22:54] We had 5% of mothers with school-aged kids working outside the home. [22:59] And for all of human history, even during the Industrial Revolution, you know, 17, 18, 1900s, like you said, in the 40s and 50s, you could be a janitor and support a family and have four kids on one income. And something shifted in the 1970s and it's never shifted back. So it can't be like... [23:19] how the stock market's doing. It can't really be like all these other independent economic factors that have shifted and changed and been so different over the course of the last 50 years. The one big thing that we changed is we pushed women into college and into the workforce. And by the 1980s, they were on par with men. [23:38] in workforce participation. So in the span of about 20 years, we almost doubled the labor force by pushing all the women in, and men's wages have never recovered. [23:50] So now you are stuck in a two income trap where even women who want to stay home and even dads who would love to have their wife home with their kids. It's really tough. So why did women entering the workforce keep men's wages stable or keep them from going up along with the with the inflation? It really fundamentally changed the economy. I have a friend named Aaron Clary who wrote a book about the about this.

[24:20] Women are like responsible for 80 percent of consumer spending. And now that they're all educated and in the job market, we have a lot more of things like HR departments, psychology, sociology. Like the economy shifted away from being like manufacturing and production and more male dominated things to we have all these women coming out of university. And, you know, what do they get degrees in? I think 80 percent of psychology degrees are earned by women. [24:47] And then despite all our efforts to push women into STEM, there's still like maybe 20 percent of STEM degrees. [24:56] very educated women, and we have a lot of kind of fluffy jobs, like office jobs, HR jobs, social media managers, and mostly women do a lot of the same things they used to do [25:08] in the home. So they're nurses, they're early childhood educators, they're retail workers, they're cooks, they're housekeepers. They're doing a lot of the stuff they used to do. [25:19] which the Marxist feminists called unpaid labor, right? This is the myth of women's unpaid labor. So instead of cleaning your own house, educating your own children, cooking meals for your family, maybe for your parents or grandparents who can't cook for themselves, all the things we used to do for our own family, clerical work, bookkeeping for your husband's business, things like that. [25:41] We're doing those things for corporations. [25:43] So that... [25:44] And this was kind of by design. A lot of the book is about the fact that [25:50] There were people who pushed feminism and it wasn't because women were oppressed and they cared about the position of women necessarily. It's because the same people who pushed feminism.

[25:59] you know, the 19th Amendment and pushed progressivism and feminism were the same people who drafted the Federal Reserve legislation, came up with the income tax, came up with the compulsory education system. And especially on the Marxist side, [26:15] They pushed feminism because they said, if we can push mothers and women into the workforce and we double the workforce, [26:22] Workers of the world unite. You know what I'm saying? So it's like we have this huge workforce and through the university systems, we can kind of propagandize the young women to be socialists and to be Marxists because they kind of tend that way anyway. The way that women's brains work is very like communitarian for a reason. We're moms. [26:40] You know, so it's very easy to radicalize. And this isn't my opinion. Like I go over in the book how you can just read the writings of these people and they tell you August Babel, Alexander Kolontai, Margaret Fuller, like all these early 1800s writers were saying. [26:56] We need to get women away from the home and away from being mothers and push them into the workplace because then we can politicize them. We can motivate them into becoming revolutionaries. [27:07] And that's how we'll get the numbers to make this work. [27:10] Wow. Yeah. [27:12] So now, instead of staying home with your kids and doing all these things for your family, for your community, you're doing them for a corporation. You're paying income tax. You're paying money. [27:23] All the other taxes associated with having to work outside the home, gas tax because you're driving back and forth to work, payroll taxes, all that kind of stuff.

[27:32] And [27:33] you [27:34] are away from your kids all day, where do they go? [27:37] they go to public schools where the public school system [27:40] then can dictate to them what the values should be, what the worldview should be instead of the parents. [27:48] . [27:49] Fooey. [27:51] Yeah. It just makes you wonder like there's all these giant shifts in culture and it makes you wonder what what would we look like if that had never taken place? Well, that's so you asked, like, why did I start writing about this? That's why. Because I had like an aha moment where I realized feminism is. [28:12] Far and away, like it's not even close. It's the biggest social revolution in all of human history, and it happened in one century. We took the whole social order. [28:22] that was in every culture around the world for all of the rest of time. [28:27] that's recorded. And we flipped it upside down and completely changed it in one century. Everything about your life, [28:34] is different now because of feminism in ways that you don't even think about. You know, the way that you... [28:41] act in the workplace, the way that legislation works, the way that school systems work, like every single thing about life has changed. [28:50] as a downstream result of feminism and pushing this model of women's equality, which it's really not. It's really not about equality. And all you have to do is read all the first. Everybody thinks first wave was just, oh, they just wanted rights. They just wanted a few rights. That was good. And the average person would say, yeah, I think that that was good. But that's because they don't know the real history. And the reason they don't know the real history is because when they invented gender studies and women's studies,

[29:20] with some help from the Rockefellers and the Carnegies in the late 60s. [29:25] They literally rewrote the history of how women's suffrage happened. So there's a professor named Joseph Miller who did an examination of 12, the main 12 textbooks that are most commonly used in all the Western universities to teach women's history. And he's not even like a right winger. He's like a liberal college professor. [29:55] debates held between suffragists and anti-suffragists, all of the writings of anti-suffragist groups, which far outnumbered pro-suffragist groups, he found that they left out huge chunks of, [30:07] of what really happened or intentionally misrepresented what actually happened. [30:12] on purpose to kind of sell feminism as something different than what it really was. So what did they leave out? So the most important thing they left out was that women did not want feminism. [30:24] women's liberation. [30:26] What? Yes. Everybody assumes and believes that it was a grassroots thing that women kind of looked around in the 19th century and they went, you know, we're oppressed. We don't have any rights. I wish I could work. I wish I could get away from my bastard husband who drinks and beats me. I need... [30:46] I need rights. I need a bank account. I need credit cards. I want to go to university. And they marched and they picketed until they had voting rights and inequality in the workplace. That's the story everyone's heard. And it's not correct at all. It's it's in fact, it's the opposite. So this is hilarious. When.

[31:06] So we had this big fight in the late 1800s between pro-suffrage groups and [31:11] and anti-suffrage groups. Most women in the United States and England [31:16] If they were a member of either, they far outnumbered by joining the anti-suffrage groups. They were very much against it. It was only a small minority of women who were pro-suffrage. And these groups would debate publicly. They would write pamphlets. They would write tracts. We have a really good written historical record of what actually happened. [31:36] And women didn't want it. They thought they thought they had a lot of great things going on already that were going to get ruined by suffrage. For example, here's some let's do a little myth busting. People have this idea that prior to the 19th Amendment, women were denied an education. Completely untrue. Some of the first universities in the United States were mahonyls. [31:57] exclusively female universities and seminaries. [32:01] and secondary schools. More women actually probably had the opportunity to go than men, because men always had to work in the fields, in the mines, go to war, build the infrastructure of the nation, work on railroads, you know. [32:14] So women were seen as like, well, you're going to be teaching the kids, so you should probably do a little extra education. Whereas Jimmy and Billy, they need to work the farm with dad, you know. [32:25] So there was never any law that prohibited women from higher education. What happens, what feminists do is, [32:32] They rely on framing. So they'll say, because there weren't co-ed universities, right?

[32:36] because it was women's universities and then men had separate ones. It was mostly segregated. [32:43] they'll say women didn't have equal access to education. Were the better schools men's schools? No. In fact, I'd say... [32:51] I guess you could say some, there were a handful of Ivy league institutions that didn't let women into certain programs. Um, [32:59] But it was mostly like medical stuff, things like that. And that had already changed before the passage of the 19th Amendment. Women were already being led into Ivy League education, being allowed to do biology and and become doctors. Many of the women in my book who were first wave suffragists had degrees, had educations, had degrees. [33:19] The other one is like women weren't allowed to leave the house. They weren't allowed to, you know, sex out of wedlock or children out of wedlock. Oh, my gosh, it was so terrible. But most of the women in my book who were traveling the world promoting women's suffrage had children out of wedlock, had extramarital affairs or multiple sex partners or were even lesbians. [33:42] Open lesbians touring the world, making money, giving speeches, writing pamphlets and tracts, raising money for the suffrage movement. Nobody put them in jail. Nobody whipped them. Was there some stigma? Sure. [33:54] But... [33:55] I don't think that you can argue that stigma against... [33:59] those sort of things equates to... [34:02] oppression of women by the patriarchy. It's always framed that way, but that's not true. So what year did they pass the 19th Amendment? And the 19th Amendment is what gave women the right to vote, right? So there were women that said, I don't want the right to vote? Yes. In fact, when they... Why wouldn't you just want the right to vote, even keeping a traditional household, like the right to have a say, if it's about the world, it's about the United States, it's about our laws and how we're going to govern.

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[36:09] Yeah, so I'll tell you what their reasoning was. They said, we're going to lose a lot of the protection and provision that we currently enjoy. So for example, in the state of New York in the 1800s, as a woman entering a marriage, if you had money, if you had an inheritance that came with you when you got married, you would have to lose a lot of protection. [36:26] If your husband cheated on you or left or divorced you, you... [36:31] He couldn't take any of that. [36:32] Your inheritance was protected from... [36:35] you know, your husband leaving and taking it. And only men could be held responsible for debt. [36:42] And there was something called breadwinner laws that the court... [36:46] It was like a systemic law. It was like one specific law. It was like a whole legal framework that said, look, women have to raise kids and be pregnant and have babies. So we have to hold men responsible for financially taking care of women and children. So women couldn't be thrown into a debtor's prison. They couldn't be held legally liable for repaying a loan or anything like that. They could own property. People don't believe that either. People believe women couldn't own anything. [37:12] And the reason they say that is because once you were married, you were considered one legal entity. [37:17] But even then, a married man in the state of New York in 1800 couldn't sell a property that was owned after he was married without his wife's written consent. And the court had to be assured that she was not being like coerced into it. So there were already like the anti-suffragists themselves argued, we kind of have everything we want. You know, we have like most of the benefits of this, you know, they didn't call it a patriarchy, but what we would call a patriarchy.

[37:47] We're the primary beneficiaries of the system. We have a lot of protections. And if you make us equal, we're going to lose those. Like, what if we get drafted? What if we have to go do jury duty and hear like the gruesome details of like murders and rapes and things like that? It's going to pit the family against each other. Just with the right to vote. Yeah. Why? Just with the right to vote. So why couldn't you keep all those things and just be able to participate in? [38:12] Well, unfortunately, they were right. So one really good example is the women's temperance movement. You guys remember Prohibition. That was primarily women. [38:22] who pushed for prohibition. It was the Women's Temperance Union. It was like a Christian movement to ban alcohol. And women didn't have the right to vote, but they got prohibition passed, which was huge. Like it was one of those things that nobody thought was even going to happen. And it happened largely because of their political motivation. And the reason that it worked is because they could go to Congress or they could go to the Senate and say, we're not a political voting bloc. We have a moral high ground from which to ask for these things, because you can't [38:52] buy our vote. You can't, you know, [38:56] like, offer us things and kind of seduce us into voting for you based on promising us things that we want. And they didn't want to lose that because they felt like they had a lot of influence. And the things they predicted would happen, the anti-suffragists said, [39:11] You're going to see a lot of divorce. You're going to see broken up families because it's going to pit husband and wife against each other, just like it did with my parents, where you've got.

[39:19] Mom wants to vote for the Democrat. Dad wants to vote for the Republican or vice versa. Now they're fighting about it. They want to split. They have separate worldviews. And political interests will be used to drive a wedge between men and women and break up families. And then we're all going to be a bunch of single moms. We're all going to have to work like they they literally predicted this stuff. It's in one whole chapter of the book is dedicated to their arguments. [39:49] Okay, well, I think women should have the right to vote. They're human beings. They live here. There's laws that are being... Why would that... Well, I think... [39:57] One of the problems we have when we look back at history is the fallacy of presentism. We're looking at it through like our eyes now with with all of the presuppositions that we have about the world kind of baked in. And at this time, so in 1920, people don't realize that men had only universally gotten the right to vote very shortly before women got it. So in the UK, most men couldn't vote until about 10 years before women got the vote in the UK. [40:27] in the United States for men. You may have to pay a poll tax. You might have to take a test, like a literacy test or a political literacy test. There might be a religious requirement of some kind. There might be a racial requirement. [40:41] requirement of some kind. There could be all different kinds of restrictions on men voting. You might have to be a property owner. You might have to be a certain age. So there was a lot of men. It wasn't like all men could always vote.

[40:55] And no women could ever vote. And at the time of trying to pass suffrage, there were already a few states in the West that had granted women's suffrage like Utah and Wyoming. [41:06] And Utah is a fun case because it was mostly settled by Mormons at the time. [41:11] And they were mostly polygamists. And there was this big fight between the feds and the state of Utah because the feds did not. They were like, this polygamy thing is getting really popular out there and it's going to cause us some problems. And they want to give women the right to vote. And they. [41:25] The Mormons thought if we give women the right to vote, we can keep polygamy because they're going to vote for it because it's beneficial to them in whatever ways that the LDS church thought it was. The feds were betting on the fact that, nah, I think if we give women the right to vote, they're going to say no more of this polygamy. So let them have it. Just let them have it. Well, the feds lost the bet and the Mormon wives kept voting for the polygamy stuff. The feds didn't like it. [41:55] that was a little sus, they passed an amendment, or yeah, law through Congress in 1878, I think. I could be wrong on the date. [42:05] to take away women's suffrage. [42:07] They took the vote back from them. They said, no more voting for you. Can't do that. Because you're voting for polygamy. Yeah. And so women in Utah had suffrage granted and then had it removed for 50 years. It was from I think it was about 1870 to 1920. [42:25] that they didn't have the right to vote. And the anti-suffragists, this was a big deal. So pro-suffrage women would go to Utah and anti-suffrage women would go to Utah and they'd talk to the women and try to, because everyone's trying to get them on their side. And...

[42:38] they kind of found that like women really didn't want to be involved in politics. They felt like [42:43] We have so much going on at home. They were the community organizers. We don't have this anymore, by the way. I'm taking care of my grandparents. I'm taking care of my uncle who, you know, has a disease and is infirmed. I've got seven kids and so does my cousin and so does my sister. And we all raise them kind of together. We're very busy. We're doing all the church stuff. We're teaching the kids together. [43:04] Politics is just like you have to know so much about it and you have to be so informed and we just we don't have time and we really don't have interest. Most of them were really indifferent, but more were either indifferent or against it than were for it by such a margin. So this is the test. They let them vote on whether they wanted the vote in a huge. The biggest referendum was in Massachusetts. [43:26] So they let women vote on whether they wanted to vote in a referendum. Of the women that showed up, not a lot of them showed up. It was a fairly smallish number, but of the thousands that showed up to vote, only 4% voted. [43:40] Wanted. [43:41] suffrage on the ballot. [43:42] That's crazy. Only 4%. So guess what Elizabeth, Katie Stanton and Susan B. Anthony did after that? All the pro suffrage leaders? [43:51] They banned women from voting. [43:54] On whether they wanted to vote. [43:57] Isn't that crazy? How did Susan B. Anthony get involved in all this? Because she was one of those people that was like, what was she on the $2 bill or something? Yeah. And she was one of those people that was always held up as this amazing woman. And then I started listening to your book and I was like, wait, what? What?

[44:15] Yeah, a lot of these women like her and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were kind of the two big figureheads in America. There were a lot of other important people, but those are the two most people have heard of. They're the ones who wrote the history of women's suffrage, which is this giant like multi-volume history that they wrote. Now they wrote it from a very biased perspective to make themselves the rock stars of this movement. [44:45] fact came up with the strong independent woman narrative that women were victims who needed to be unvictimized. They had other suffragists that they were trying to cut out of the history when they were putting together this history of women's suffrage. Lucy Stone was one that said, wait a minute, you guys are leaving out huge chunks of important information like the fact that our main support comes from men. [45:08] progressive men and socialist men and polygamist men. Like, why are you guys leaving this out? If you do it, like, everyone's going to know you just... [45:19] Didn't mention any of that. [45:21] Because at the time it was like super well known. They had a lot of PR problems in the suffrage movement because it was known as something that prostitutes, socialists, Marxists, polygamists, [45:33] And [45:34] revolutionaries were into. [45:36] And she was like, you can't leave that out. It's like a main point. Maybe you don't like how it portrays us, but you got to include it. So they like reluctantly did include some of that, but they were going to try to leave it out altogether and frame it as we know it now as a fight of women against men. This fight of oppressed women against the oppressive patriarchy that was systemically trying to keep a boot on women's necks. And even their own colleagues were like, that ain't how it happened.

[46:06] a problem even back these the simp problem is ass men have always been a problem they're a giant problem and that's one thing that feminism does it gives them a way to be like i always call them like vampire familiars yes like they never really get to be a vampire but they do all the deeds for the vampires and the vampire loves them and they they hang around the vampire and they [46:31] It's the sneaky fucker mating strategy. Yes. Yes. What is that? Cuttlefish? Yeah. Yeah. Cuttlefish do that. Like sneaky bitch ass cuttlefish pretend they're female so they can hang around the females. Yep. [46:44] And that's exactly what was happening. There were other motivations, too. Like, Victoria Woodhull was a famous feminist. She was the first one to have like a big newspaper. She was known as Mrs. Satan. [46:55] Because she was into free love. She wanted to make prostitution legal. She said that marriage was just a legal form of prostitution. She saw it to be no different than regular old run-of-the-mill prostitution. She was like really radical. She was also a scam artist. Like the thing I found when I was looking into the histories of all these women, they were into the occult. [47:14] or very anti-Christian, because they saw it as patriarchal and oppressive. They were usually con artists or scammers. So spiritualism and snake oil salesmen was like really... [47:26] big and popular at the time. This lady sold fake cancer cures. She was wanted in like four different states for selling fake cancer cures to dying people and scamming them out of their money. And by pushing suffrage, she got a lot of people to fund her and give her money. And one of them was Cornelius Vanderbilt.

[47:44] and she would pretend to be able to contact the dead. She would say she could contact like ancient Greeks and all these spirits, like the spirit of Abraham Lincoln was coming to her in dreams and stuff. I don't think Cornelius believed that at all. But what he did know about her was that she did run a prostitution ring, and all her friends were hookers who worked the Wall Street gentlemen. And so she basically had a spy network of prostitutes who would give her insider trading information. [48:14] He used that to game the stock market. [48:16] on the first Black Friday, I think it was like 1889, [48:20] For today's equivalent of $26 million, according to the New York Times. And when the New York Times interviewed him and said, how did you do? How did you come out? 26 million at the time was 1.3. But today's. [48:34] Money, $26 million. How did you pull this off when everybody else has just lost their ass? And he said, do as I do. Consult the spirits. [48:43] So he said that this woman had contacted the dead and given him the tip that way. But it was really just... [48:50] She had a prostitution ring. So these were the these were the people involved. OK, and this is what they were really doing. But when gender studies departments got a hold of this history, they're not going to tell you any of this. Their job was to become the PR branch in the universities to sell Marxism. [49:09] and feminism to young women to revolutionize and radicalize. And they had helped doing that from the CIA.

[49:16] Yeah. At the same time. Because we were in the midst of a Cold War. And... [49:21] I'm not saying communism is good. I'm definitely not. But according to the CIA at the time, they were trying to push Western liberalism as being superior to communism in Russia and the Eastern Bloc. So they thought feminism was good for that purpose. So they helped fund the beginning of Ms. Magazine. They granted scholarships. They made up like fake scholarships, one of which was given to Gloria Steinem, you know, and then they had her employed for years going around the world pushing feminism. [49:51] never that the average woman was like, I want to vote. I want to listen to political debates. I want to learn about economics and foreign policy. I'm really concerned about these things. And I want to know and I want to vote. Women were concerned about things like having clean, drinking water, clean milk, safe parks, you know, [50:14] less crime, all those sort of things. And one of the other things they predicted would happen, they said, if you give women the vote and you politicize us like this, [50:23] It's all going to be it's not going to be about the welfare of our children and communities anymore. It's going to be about things like abortion and birth control. And what are the only women's issues that you ever hear about anymore in politics? The right to abortion. [50:38] And things like access to birth control, access to abortion. It's like the only thing you hear now. Where are all the women, even on the right?

[50:46] like fighting for the things they were fighting for 150 years ago. Nowhere. It's all about, [50:52] You know, like even Trump, Trump frustrates me on this because he wants he's like, we got to have more programs to get all the moms back to work. And I'm like, why? Why do you want to do that? Why do you want to push all the moms back to work? That's a terrible idea. [51:07] Why do you think he's saying that? He's a liberal and he's a feminist. He loves hiring women. [51:12] It's probably his biggest Achilles heel if he would stop hiring women and get rid of a lot of his problems. But he loves hiring women. And he's a very pro-working woman. He like his first wife. One of the things he loved about her was she was very, like, successful in business and things like that. Ivanka, same thing. And yes, they have kids, but they have nannies and they have all the money in the world to, like, support them while they're off doing this sort of thing. [51:42] the corner office. It looks like sex in the city. You're going to have the corner office, and you're going to be... [51:47] in Paris over brunch, having champagne and, you know, assigning the ink on the next deal. And you're going to be doing all this exciting boss babe stuff. And then you can also have a kid and, you know, the nanny will take care of the kid while you're doing all this important stuff at work. And it's just going to be amazing. The average woman like me ends up working a basic [52:07] Like I'm a retail manager. [52:09] I'm a waitress. You know, I'm a school teacher. I work a nursing, a 12 hour nursing shift four nights a week.

[52:17] And I have to come home and take care of my kids and my family. And I feel like I can't do it all. It's too much. So a lot of women just aren't even having kids anymore. I'm sure you've looked at birth rates. Yeah, it's kind of weird. It's weird that no one's talking about it. And there was always this narrative about overpopulation. Yes. And it's only been over the last decade or so that people start talking about population collapse. And the catastrophic impacts of that, particularly on some foreign countries like South Korea, Japan. [52:47] do not have a replacement rate. Right. They're going to be [52:50] There won't be a South Korea. [52:52] in the near future if something radical doesn't happen over there. But this is, there's a whole other chapter in the book dedicated to this whole thing and where this came from, the Malthusian population agenda. Margaret Sanger gave me nightmares writing the chapter about her. I literally had nightmares about her because she was so evil. It's hard to, everybody's heard what she said about black people by now. Most people have heard that. What did she say? Oh, that they're, [53:18] the lowest of the low and we just need to get rid of them, that it would be best for humanity if we could just convince all of the lower races to just stop breeding. So they planned parenthood on purpose, focused on African-American and indigenous communities. [53:32] And poor whites, too. But she was part of the Rockefeller Bureau for Social Hygiene. It was a eugenics program and Planned Parenthood was a eugenics program. And she was so antinatalist. You can find clips of her on the Internet now where they would interview her on the radio. And she'd say, if we're up to me, nobody would ever have babies anymore.

[53:54] We just would stop having them because life is terrible and life is hard and it's suffering. And bringing children in the world is a terrible thing, especially, she said, the most, there's a famous quote of hers, the most. [54:07] Kind thing a large family can do to one of its young members is to kill it. [54:13] And her whole her whole shtick was sold on lies. She told lies about her mother. She said that her mother died from overbreeding, that she had so many children. It just it just destroyed her body and she died. Not true. Her mom had tuberculosis. [54:28] And died from tuberculosis like half of... [54:31] everyone back then. So she lied about that. She told a fake story about a woman named Sadie Sachs, who didn't know how she kept getting pregnant, and the doctor refused to tell her because... [54:41] the bad male doctors just wanted the women to just keep having babies. So they refused to tell them how that worked. [54:47] Which I went and asked my grandma. I'm like, Grandma, you were around like in this exact time period. Did you and your mom like not know how babies remain? She was like, what are you talking about? Of course we knew that. In fact, she said after my sister was born, her younger sister was the fourth kid in the family. The doctor told my parents like, [55:04] You guys need to be careful, like time things and like try it because it's, you know, she had some health problems. He's like another baby might be risky. So if you want to avoid that, here's how you avoid that. She's like, of course we knew. [55:16] People have known that since the beginning of time. Of course they have. But she wrote a whole book that purported to have thousands of letters from women around the world writing to Margaret Sanger saying, I'm only 23 and I'm on my 14th baby. I'm not kidding. She would. The numbers were insane.

[55:46] to stop it and so she was like this is why we need abortion clinics [55:51] is for this reason. Now, I looked into this because there's something called the Margaret Sanger Papers Project. They have everything she's ever done. If she wiped her mouth on a napkin, [56:01] They've got that in the archives. They have everything. Do you think out of the thousands of letters she said that she got from women saying, I just can't stop having all these babies and it's killing me and I'm miserable. How many do you think are preserved in the Margaret Sanger Papers project? [56:16] How many? [56:17] Zero? Three. Three? Three out of thousands. And I emailed them. [56:23] directly. And I asked, seems weird. You guys have like literally letters that she wrote to her friends. You have like all this documentation on everything she ever did. Certainly if she was getting thousands of letters, you've got more than three. And they said, well, we think it was mostly lost to time or she sent them to abortion doctors to encourage them to keep going because, you know, people didn't like abortion doctors. So we think she sent it to a lot of abortion doctors to like, [56:53] don't really know. [56:54] It's just lost to time. So you think she made a lot of it out? Oh, yes, yes. Especially because if you read the book, nobody reads this crap, you know, except me. I'm crazy. Nobody else wants to read all of their horrible writing, but... [57:06] In the book, if you're reading these letters, they sound literally like they're all written by the same person. So it's extremely dubious at best.

[57:16] I would love if, hey, if the Margaret Sanger Papers Project folks want to come and tell me where all these are, if there's any proof of this, I would love to see it because I looked for two and a half years and couldn't find anything. In fact, the most popular Sanger biographer in the world who knows everything about her admits that she lied about tons of stuff. She's like, oh, she lied about the Sadie Sacks story. She lied about why her mother really died. And she probably lied about those other stories and letters, too. [57:46] She believed it was for a noble cause. She thought what she was doing was good. And the other big secret is she was getting a lot of money. [57:53] She was getting paid by the Rockefeller Foundation and promoted by people like H.G. Wells, who she was also having an affair with. They're all a bunch of creepers, Joe, I'm telling you. She was married and had three kids. She left her kids in like hippie bohemian communities. One of them died from neglect in one of these communities. Didn't care about her kids at all. [58:23] My sister would not be dead if my mother gave any shits about us whatsoever, but she didn't. She was anywhere except where we were. Any excuse to leave. She let her ex-husband take the rap for her distributing illegal drugs. [58:36] illegal stuff about like abortion and birth control that [58:40] The Comstock laws didn't allow that back then. So she was wanted in court and was going to be put in jail for distributing that stuff. She let her husband take the fall for it while she went to England and had affairs with people like H.G. Wells and Havelock Ellis. And they were all bisexual and they were all occultists and doing all this crazy stuff.

[58:58] But... [58:59] People HG Walls called her the most incredible woman ever to live and said that she was going to have more impact on the future of humanity than any other person. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you want to train your dog, you don't want just any rando off the streets who likes animals. You want someone with the skills to get your pet where you want them to be. Someone who can help you help them. [59:24] So why wouldn't you do the same when it comes to hiring for your business? Skill-based hiring is the thing to do right now. And a good way to go about that is ZipRecruiter, especially since you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com. ZipRecruiter can help you find the perfect match for your role. Their smart matching technology works fast to find candidates while screening questions help ensure you find quality talent [59:54] looking for. It even has filters you can use to see who's been recently active on the site. Let ZipRecruiter help you find amazing candidates with the skills you seek. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your [1:00:24] Why do you think he thought that? [1:00:26] Because he was a eugenicist who loved the idea of millions of abortions a year. H.G. Wells, the War of the Worlds guy, was a eugenicist.

[1:00:35] You should have Jay Dyer on to tell you about H.G. Wilson. I brought you his book. I don't want to know. I love The War of the Worlds. [1:00:42] He wrote some great fiction, but he was a diehard Malthusian. These people really believed. It was actually a very popular thing that we're talking like right after Darwinism. We're talking about just before the Nazis. We're talking about the Kaiser Wilhelm Foundation. It was a very popular position to be a... [1:01:00] In favor of social hygiene, as they called it, which was, you know, anybody with birth defects shouldn't be able to reproduce. Anybody of the lower races or inferior mentally, any of those kind of people shouldn't reproduce because we want, you know, a cleaner, better human race going forward. Oof. Yeah. Yeah. [1:01:20] So feminism was instrumental in that. That's actually where the birth control pill came from as well. [1:01:25] Margaret Sanger, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Kaiser Wilhelm Foundation, and a lot of Nazi scientists are the ones who started synthesizing human hormones to make birth control pills. And the way they sold that was they said, look, we know abortion is very unpopular. People don't like it. [1:01:41] It's a very terrible thing that we have to do. We have to do it because we don't want all these babies. Ugh. [1:01:47] you know, if you let us have the birth control pill and you make it like widely available and socially acceptable, [1:01:54] Abortion will be a thing of the past. [1:01:56] Nobody will need one ever again. That's how it was marketed and sold to the world. And it sounds right. It sounds reasonable. Maybe it's better. Maybe it's better just to prevent all the pregnancies and then we don't have to worry about abortions.

[1:02:08] But here we are in 2026. You can get abortion or you can get birth control pills for four dollars at Walmart. You can go down to your local health department in your county and get them for free if you're under a certain. [1:02:22] income status. And we still have, well, at least before they overturned Roe v. Wade, we still had about a million abortions a year in this country, even with the shot and the pill and all these types of birth control and more education than we've ever had. That was the other thing when I was in school, right? More sex ed, more sex ed, and then no more teen pregnancies. [1:02:42] That hasn't panned out whatsoever. It turns out that if you take all the stigma away from sexual activity, you tell everybody premarital sex is actually good. You've got to get in there and figure out how things work before you get married. You don't want to just get married. That's weird. We still have a million abortions a year. We still have... [1:03:01] Plan B. [1:03:03] pills and things like this. There's been more babies aborted in the last century than all the men that have been killed in all the wars. [1:03:11] of the 20th century. [1:03:13] Like far and away. Right. [1:03:14] Yeah. [1:03:16] It's crazy. [1:03:20] The Gloria Steinem CIA thing is nuts. Yeah. Yeah. [1:03:24] That's nuts. Yeah. Because – [1:03:26] The real tinfoil hat people want to think that the CIA has been involved in every single social aspect, including like the rock and roll movement of the 1960s. And there seems to be some evidence. [1:03:37] And when you see like how far the tentacles actually go –

[1:03:44] And then you see it like in feminism. You go, wait, what was she was what? Yeah. Yeah. [1:03:51] So explain. [1:03:53] Gloria Steinem was recruited out of Smith College in the 50s. It was an all-women's college. She already had some pretty, like... [1:04:01] left progressive kind of feminist leanings. And this is generally how this works. If you want to know how the left has taken over academia, I have a whole paper about this on my sub stack, how NGOs and universities have just swung completely left and they have just captured the university systems. [1:04:20] They do it this way. So they recruit her out of Smith College. You know, she's writing papers about women's rights and feminism and stuff like that. And they go, she's pretty good at this. So they approach her and they say, we're willing to offer you something called the Chester Bowles Fellowship. [1:04:35] And she goes, what's that? And they're like, well, it doesn't really exist. We've made it up for you. Because what we're going to do is we're going to give you this fellowship. We're going to send you to India. We're going to send you to Europe. We're going to have you tour the whole United States, do a media tour, start a magazine to promote women's rights, the things that you believe in. So it's it's a little more sneaky than everybody sitting in a dark back room and like plotting some evil plan to like make. [1:05:00] America into a feminist hellhole. It was more like we're trying to promote liberal democracy around the world because it's part of the Cold War. You're really good at this feminism stuff. And if we can get a lot of women voting and if we can get them into universities and mobilize them as a political party.

[1:05:17] just similar to what they did with black people. Convince blacks that you're all oppressed, you're all victims, and radicalize them and make them permanent Democrat voters. Same thing that they did with feminism. So they sent her to India, where she worked for the Ford Foundation, again, the same people who created gender studies. [1:05:38] Learned a lot of interesting things over there in India. Not sure what's going on in there. I said in my book, it's like a hotbed of like theosophy and like, [1:05:46] crazy, like the Dalai Lama, and there's a lot of weird stuff going on in India. I don't know why they send everybody there, and then when they leave India, they go and promote... [1:05:55] this weird stuff. It's what they do. So they sent her to like Eastern Europe to a youth festival where she promoted feminism. And this is at the time where the Eastern block is still communist and it's hard to get in there. But as a woman, um, [1:06:09] This is something traditionally they always do with women. It's very easy to sneak female spies or propagandists in rather than men because they're less suspicious. You know, it's like, oh, she just wants to promote education for women. And they're like, fine, she can come, I guess, whatever. So she's promoting feminism there. Then she comes here. She's undercover at the Playboy Mansion, weirdly. Undercover? Yeah. She like people didn't know she was CIA at this point. She was like a Playboy bunny for a little while. What? Yeah. [1:06:39] Her mansion. Undercover as a Playboy bunny? Yeah. [1:06:42] That's hilarious. Yeah. She was kind of hot for like back in the day in the 70s, late 60s. She was kind of hot. Well, compared to the other feminists we had to choose from. Who else did we have? Betty Friedan.

[1:06:55] I don't know if you've ever seen her. Is there any photos of Gloria Steinem at the mansion? Yeah. There's a picture of her in the bunny costume. Oh, we've got to see that. Yeah. Maybe Jamie can pull it up. Well, yeah. There's a video, too. I'm trying to see. [1:07:07] better. [1:07:08] Yeah. So and that was to promote the sexual liberation stuff. Right. Hey, women can for the CIA. Yeah. [1:07:15] So [1:07:16] Well, yeah, it didn't say for the CIA here, but – [1:07:20] Yeah. Undercover Playboy Bunny. It's an HBO original. Wow. There's a documentary on it. That's crazy. I wonder how they frame it. [1:07:30] This says it's for going about exploiting women and low wages. Let me see the photos of her down there. [1:07:38] where below where it says images click on one of those where it's her [1:07:43] Yeah, it's pretty. Yeah, good enough. [1:07:46] Yeah. [1:07:47] That's on her? That's Christy Alley. Yeah. Oh. Is that Christy Alley playing her? Must be. Oh, yeah. She played her. That was in... [1:07:54] For what year was that? 1985. Wow. Wow. [1:07:58] That's crazy. But she did come out in her memoirs and talk about it. Interesting. And she also talked about... But did she talk about that she was working for the CIA? Yes. So she started Ms. Magazine with CIA funding. She was working with Clay Felker and a couple of other... Is that her? [1:08:13] No, that's not her either. She was okay. I mean, it was nothing thrilling, but it was good enough to get her in there. And like I said, her and Betty Friedan had like this rivalry, this vicious rivalry in the press because Friedan was a Marxist. There's always been this battle between like the liberal capitalist type of feminists and the Marxist type of feminists.

[1:08:43] And she's kind of a hippie. So she got all the press and she started Ms. Magazine, which there's a whole bunch on that in my book as well. But yeah, it was like it was part of the Cold War. It was part of pushing like the liberal democracy stuff to contrast it against like the communist Eastern Bloc. [1:09:04] at the time. And it was very useful. There's extensive writing from so many people in this movement about how, hey, if you can get women... [1:09:14] Young women into universities, they're very easy to propagandize. They're very easy to program with whatever worldview you want to give them. And if you want to make them into revolutionaries, they make excellent revolutionaries. This is why right now you see women in Minnesota and all. [1:09:32] Portland and L.A. going up to ICE agents and getting in their face and calling them names. And you got a small dick, little man. You think you're tough shit. If you're wondering why, why is it women? Why are women trying to like fight ICE agents in the streets? It's because we send them all to college. They get indoctrinated with this Marxist feminist worldview that masculinity is toxic and bad, that men are inherently violent and oppressive and women [1:10:02] who bring goodness and fairness into the world, make sure everyone has enough to eat. This is the like false dialectic that everyone gets taught. So they see what these women see when they see ICE arresting, even if it's a sex criminal who has warrants, they don't care. They see him as a sweet, innocent victim of the evil white patriarchy, that these are fascist Nazis coming to arrest the beautiful baby immigrants who are helpless and need protection from mommy.

[1:10:32] Did you see there's a video of this guy going up to people to try to get people that ICE has deported brought back into the country? Have you seen this video? No. Let me send it to you, James, because it's quite funny because he's explaining how one of them, the one he wants to get back in the country, has committed five murders, but he thinks he needs a second chance, and they're 100 percent agreeing with him. [1:10:56] It's like it's one of the funniest things. It's like – [1:10:59] You just – you see how fucking kooky people are with this stuff that it's not like, oh, wow, he's a bad person. It's like, no, in their little tiny, blinder-sided ideological bubble, anybody that gets deported should be brought in. ICE is bad. Immigrants are good. Yeah. And without any regard whatsoever to the consequences of bringing over murderers and rapists and drug dealers and gang members. Put your headphones on real quick. [1:11:27] Because this is kooky. [1:11:30] Bring back illegal immigrants who were deported by ICE. We're with the Bring Them Back campaign. Can we get your signature for our petition? I just need your name and email address. Specifically, we're trying to bring back Edwin Hernandez. [1:11:41] From El Salvador? Yeah. [1:11:43] We do have to disclose to you, though, that he is an admitted member of MS-13, and he did kill five people back in El Salvador, but... [1:11:51] We think he deserves a second chance, and we want to get him back. That's him right there. [1:11:57] What do you guys think about what's going on with ICE in this country? Oh, it's appalling, I guess. It's maybe not even a strong enough word. Appalling? Yeah, we're from Maine. There's been a lot of ICE activity in Maine. Up in Portland, right? Yeah, up in Portland. That's where we live.

[1:12:14] I'm a teacher, and there were lots of students that were afraid to come to school. Thank you so much. Hopefully we can get Edwin Hernandez back. [1:12:26] Salvador, right? All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good work. [1:12:30] Good work. Good work. Bring that murderer back. Eloise, MS-13 gang members killed five people? Yeah, bring them back. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. [1:13:00] keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. [1:13:30] it lifelock.com slash JRE and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com slash JRE for 30% off terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America. And that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them are choosing this over traditional

[1:14:00] Because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:14:18] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:14:44] The perfect, she's the perfect example. She's a school teacher. What school teacher do you know who's not liberal? [1:14:51] Very few. Very few. And most of K through 12 is female teachers. By the time you get to high school, there's a few more, but I think it's like 80, 90 percent of school teachers are women. So they go to university, they go for education, and they almost inevitably end up getting some kind of women's studies course thrown in there. And so they're taught this worldview that white men are... [1:15:12] are evil and oppressive to women, to minorities, to poor people. So they see Edwin Hernandez, whatever his name is. Well, sure, he murdered five people, but he wouldn't have done that if he wasn't poor and oppressed by the evil white patriarchy. It's not fair. And so she wants to protect him. And she said there's kids who are afraid to come to school.

[1:15:33] You know, the kids are afraid. It's just like the Democrats last night with their little reply to Trump's State of the Union where they said the same thing. If you've been trying to protect your neighbors from the Gestapo who's coming to arrest them, we understand how stressful that is. They just create this. [1:15:50] completely false narrative. That's not how the world really works. [1:15:54] Ask the average white man out there who he's oppressing, because most of them are just working hard as Amazon delivery drivers or plumbers or sewage workers or something like that. The average white man has never had this incredible amount of power. It's all framing. Right. [1:16:11] The minute you take away and destroy the framing that everyone accepts – [1:16:15] This all falls apart, which is why I wrote the book, because I'm like, if women knew specifically, specifically, [1:16:21] Women like me, this is supposed to be for us. [1:16:24] This whole movement was supposed to be for me and my daughters to... [1:16:29] liberate us. And I was like, okay, from what? [1:16:33] From the people who have the best interest in protecting me, my father, my husband, my [1:16:39] my brother, the men around me. In order to believe the feminist narrative that men have systemically just always wanted to keep women down and oppress them, you'd have to believe that... [1:16:48] They didn't care about their mothers, their daughters, their sisters, their [1:16:52] their grandmothers, their neighbor lady, [1:16:55] Just all the men wanted to just systemically oppress the women so that they could [1:17:00] have free maids and, you know, sex bot women at home. There was a ton of propaganda in the 70s as well about this. Remember the Stepford Wives movie where it was revealed in the movie plot that like all the evil men in this nice suburban neighborhood full of white people, they all had sex bot wives. They didn't want their real wives. They wanted a mindless sex bot that cleaned the house and baked casseroles. And this was supposed to imply that.

[1:17:27] that, [1:17:28] This is why men are oppressing you. They don't want you to have a brain. They don't want you to have input. They don't want to hear your thoughts on things or have you be a real person. They just want you to serve them. [1:17:39] You know what I mean? [1:17:41] That's not how life is. Life's a lot more complicated than that. But when you fill the university systems with this and then you fill the workplace with it. [1:17:50] We've got HR. We've got Me Too. We've got all these... [1:17:54] systems in place now that actually [1:17:57] promote feminism. It's far and away the dominant social aspect of the culture. Look at every female celebrity. [1:18:05] Every single one of them. Think of the top ones like Kylie Jenner, Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Katy Perry, any of the really popular films. [1:18:15] female pop culture, they're all girl boss, sexual liberation, sexual liberation. [1:18:20] shitting on your ex-boyfriend. Men ain't shit. I'm going to dominate him with my, you know, sexy physique and my sexual prowess. And it turns out that... [1:18:31] A lot of the ancient goddess worship, which was really popular with feminists in the 70s, there was a huge revival of that. [1:18:37] a lot of the [1:18:39] goddess archetypes that they brought back had those same themes like the goddess Kali, who's a Hindu goddess with eight arms and blue skin and a tongue hanging out of her mouth and all of her depictions in Hinduism. [1:18:52] They the feminists chose that and put it on the cover of the first issue of Ms. Magazine in 1973. That seems like a weird choice if you're trying to get suburban moms in 1973 to buy your magazine to put this blue skinned, terrifying Hindu goddess on the cover. So why did they do that? Well, because they had her holding an iron and a baby and like all these domestic things. Right. And the goddess Kali symbolizes at least two feminists

[1:19:19] Vengeance against men. Taking back power from men and having your revenge on them because... [1:19:24] That goddess only accepts male sacrifice, male human sacrifice, especially on the battlefield. She, like, drinks the blood of deceased male warriors. Yeah. And she's intentionally terrifying, and she's supposed to, like, symbolize this. Let me see what she looks like, Jamie. [1:19:41] Yeah. If you pull up that... Just put up the actual goddess Kali... [1:19:46] There it is. [1:19:48] Thank you. [1:19:49] Women tell the truth about their abortions. [1:19:52] Wow. On Raising Kids Without Sex Rolls. What year was this? 1973, I think. Wow. Yep. [1:19:58] on the housewife's moment of truth. This was the huge propaganda campaign to convince women that staying home and raising your own kids is actually [1:20:08] horrific oppression and its abuse and you're enslaved. [1:20:12] You want to be at work working for your boss. You want to be paying those taxes. You want to don't submit to your husband. Submit your boss, though. [1:20:21] That's fine. [1:20:22] But... [1:20:23] Or become the boss. Yeah, or become the boss, which... [1:20:26] And again, we've had 50 years of trying to push women to be the boss. And guess what? They really don't want to. And this is what I always say. Some of them do, though. [1:20:34] Some of them do. That's true. They're not a lot of fun. [1:20:37] They're not. I would say there's always been like 5% of women who are genuine outliers, who are really not cut out for motherhood, who can go out there and crush it, who are going to do something else. Historically, usually it was like maybe you would become a monastic like a nun or something. Maybe you would run a boarding school or a tavern. Like women have owned businesses and done other things in almost every culture. But you should be free to do that. The issue is like.

[1:21:02] Are we indoctrinating people into a very specific ideology in schools and universities? Yes. And is that why they're going to something that really maybe they're not that outlier and they wouldn't really be interested in it? You know, I was talking the other day about this video that I saw on Instagram. [1:21:20] A while back where there was this woman she was talking about how when she was in college, she was dating this guy who was a Christian and he wanted a traditional family and he's like, I'll take care of you and I'll raise our kids and she goes, I didn't want that I wanted to go out there in the world. So I got my education. [1:21:37] And I got the job and I'm doing the thing that I want to do. And I... [1:21:42] Don't want it. She goes, I don't. And she was crying. She was like, I don't want it. She goes like, this is not what I want. I'm not happy. And I fucked up. [1:21:51] Yeah. And it's just crazy. It's terrible. You're like, how many people silently feel like that? [1:21:56] Yeah, well, the truth is that since this book came out a few years ago, I've paid a pretty high personal cost for putting this information out there. And in the first chapter, I say, look, I'm just going to present to you the actual facts. [1:22:10] about the history and what really happened, because I think it's for you women to decide. This is supposed to be for you. I want you guys to look at what really happened and the results of that. And the whole last chapter is like a ton of statistics about where are we now after 50 years of this being the super dominant thing. It's not great. It's not great. But I was like, I want women to have...

[1:22:34] the ability to look at it truthfully for themselves and decide what they think. And I have been slandered. I have been the things that have been said about me, the lies and the gossip that have been spread like online, calling me everything under the sun, just wild, crazy rumors about my personal life that are not true. [1:22:53] But that's going to happen to anybody that's in the public that says anything controversial. I'm kind of seen as somebody betraying the sisterhood, right? Because we're so programmed that it's like the knee-jerk reaction from women. [1:23:04] Oftentimes, but I get... [1:23:06] Hundreds now? Emails, DMs, letters in the mail even. [1:23:10] to our P.O. box from women. Like one was a lady who was like, I'm 60 years old. [1:23:17] I'm sitting here reading your book, and it's covered with tears. [1:23:20] Because I fell for this shit. Now I'm 60 years old. I have no husband. I have no kids. I have a shitty job that I hate. I'm going to die alone. And I can't go back and change any of it. What do I do? Do you know who's upset about it too? The lady who created Sex and the City. [1:23:36] Oh, yeah. Did you see that? She's a gem. Yes, there's like a little video about that, isn't there? Where – [1:23:44] She said that she regrets having ever made that. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Because how many women saw that and like, I'm going to be that boss girl. Yeah. I'm going to be that. What was the one lady that fucked everybody? The hot blonde lady? Yeah. [1:23:56] Uh... [1:23:57] Jamie, you're a giant. Aren't you a giant fan of Sex and the City? No, but that's the guy. [1:24:02] named about [1:24:02] Character or actor?

[1:24:04] Both. [1:24:05] Samantha as the character. Yeah. Yeah. [1:24:07] That lady, she was in all the... [1:24:09] Like, that's it. Yes. Super hot. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, I'm going to be like her. I'm going to be a Samantha. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was pushed on me really hard. And I was told. [1:24:21] I was told you're like a loser. I'll never forget this. It was like maybe 12 years ago. Somebody from the RNC that I was arguing with online about this, she told me, you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not a proper conservative woman and you are not contributing to the movement by staying home with your kids. I said, really? How's that? She goes, what about the GDP? [1:24:42] I was like, the GDP? She's like, if you were a real Republican, you'd be out there working and contributing to the GDP. You're right. Raising five children and trying to make them the best human beings I can help them be. [1:24:59] who wants to do that? I should get out there and work for a corporation. That's what GDP was her argument. Yeah. And that's crazy. I debate feminists all the time. [1:25:09] Yeah. Online. I'm pretty undefeated if anybody wants a piece. Well, here's the thing about liberals online. I was just talking to Andrew about this. You said that was incorrect, the take on her. The opposite is true. I've never regretted not having children. I feel compelled to have a career since I was a child. But who's judging? Not me. Read all about it in my new book. [1:25:28] But I thought, so why does it say here Sex and the City writer Candace Bushnell, 60, admits she regrets choosing a career over having children as she's now truly alone? I don't know. And then there's a link. I would imagine she was selling a book and they're –

[1:25:41] to get some headlines um this is the daily mail though the daily mail is a little sus right it's click on that highlight that and click on that article that daily mail article like do they quote her even if it's like just the even if it's not there's there's definitely plenty of other women who push this 100 but i wonder like how are they able to say that she regrets this if she doesn't if there's no quote attached to it [1:26:08] So what does it say here? Then when I got divorced, I was in my 50s, started to see the impact of not having children and being truly alone. Okay. I do see that people with children have an anchor in a way that people – [1:26:18] who have no kids don't. [1:26:20] Okay. And what does it say below that? Any more? Does she elaborate? [1:26:25] She explained that she didn't feel like dating after her 2012 divorce. Ballet dancer. She married a ballet dancer. Red flag. This wasn't going around for a while. Sorry, male ballet dancers. I'm just kidding. Okay. [1:26:40] It's not that long to get to my age. I know women who have gone longer. [1:26:46] That was it? That was the entire quote? Yeah, I was just looking her up. Well, I can see why they took it that way then. Maybe she's saying overall she still thinks it was better to go after a career. Or maybe she's just gaslighting everybody to sell a book. Could be. Maybe she's like, you want to sell that book? You better be on the... [1:27:02] go-go boss girl train. I suppose so. But like you asked, you asked me like, [1:27:09] Do women really want to be in the workplace, or are they only kind of really choosing the girl boss? Well, that's a giant generalization anyway. Right. Of course it is. Obviously, some women do, and some women don't. And there's a lot of women who naturally, maternally want to have children, want to have a family. And then it's also finding a guy that you can trust, that you care about, and you think is going to stick with you, and he's really going to be invested in this whole thing. And someone who's like a solid man who's not going to become an alcoholic and lose his job and fall apart. That's what happened to me.

[1:27:39] Right, that can happen to anybody. But... [1:27:41] That aside for just a moment, Simone de Beauvoir, arguably the biggest feminist of second wave, the French intellectual who was buddies with Jean-Paul Sartre, and they got in trouble for grooming underage kids and seducing them and all kinds of crazy stuff. But she's respected as the greatest feminist intellectual of the 20th century, and she was super influential. And in a 1970s interview with Betty Friedan, she said, I don't believe that society should give women sex. [1:28:10] the opportunity or the choice to stay home and be mothers. Because if we do, they're all going to pick that. [1:28:16] And I don't think it should be an option. So it was the view of the feminists that, yeah, and Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton said that. [1:28:26] Uh, [1:28:27] We would have never passed suffrage had it not been for men. If it was ever left up to women alone. [1:28:33] We would have never passed suffrage. They would have never gone for it. They don't want liberation. Now, of course, from their view, they're like, well, it's because they're oppressed and they don't know that they hate their solid their slavery yet. They just haven't realized how oppressed they are. And if they could see it, you know, for what it is, they wouldn't like it. But we couldn't convince them for 100 years. We had to convince the men that don't you want liberation? [1:28:55] your daughters to like have their own money and this and that. Um, [1:28:59] So the feminists themselves say women didn't want it. If we ever left it up to women, they wouldn't have ever chosen it, like at least not as a whole. Sure, there would always have been a minority, but I would argue that the minority of women who fought for that were the ones that...

[1:29:14] The status quo historically of get yourself a good man, have a family, stay home. It doesn't work for them. So like a lot of them, there's a book about this. [1:29:28] Edward Dutton wrote a book about witches, feminism in the fall of the West, where he says traditionally like women, the archetype of the witch being ugly and haggard and living on the outside of town. [1:29:37] It's kind of historically accurate. Most of the feminists, like, have you ever seen a picture of Susan B. Anthony, for example? I have not. [1:29:45] She is a [1:29:47] Aesthetically challenged, we'll say that. So was Betty Friedan. So are a lot of these women. Not all. [1:29:52] But a lot of them are. And a lot of men were not really interested in them. I think they look at the system and they go, well, this isn't fair to me. [1:29:58] You know, I'm smart. I can do other things. I'm just a baby factory. The amount of women who have called me a baby factory is pretty insane because I have five kids. Well, they're not fun women. No, they're not fun women. They're like, I don't want to be you. You're just a baby factory. It's like the same kind of men that call me toxic male. Oh, yeah. You know, it's just... How dare you be a successful... [1:30:21] masculine archetype of a man. You're not allowed to lift weights. Right. It's very threatening to people. Well, in some ways, I'm the weirdest person to be here talking about this because I grew up a tomboy. [1:30:32] And I have a lot of people use this against me. They're like, oh, you're actually really masculine for a woman. You may not always look super masculine. Well, you're really into firearms. I'm a firearms instructor. I love weightlifting. I'm like an OG meathead. I love bodybuilding. I did powerlifting for years. I grew up on farms playing in the mud with dogs.

[1:30:51] the other boys in the neighborhood. That's what I liked to do. But I think that when you grow up like that as a woman, you realize, like, I'm really strong for a woman. I can deadlift 250 pounds for sets of five. [1:31:04] But the guy next to me who has never trained in his life can do that, too. And you give him six months in the gym and he's going to blow past me. You have a more realistic... [1:31:15] understanding of how that works. And I think that in the modern era, all the feminist side debate, they live in this world that we're sitting in the studio right now and all this wonderful stuff that allows me to be here talking to you and talking to all the folks that are watching. I, [1:31:30] The microphone, the technology, everything was built by men. You'll hear the Hedy Lamarr thing that she came up with. Wi-Fi? No, it's not true. Really? No, it's not true. What do you mean? She worked with a man on a precursor to it, but it wasn't her. It wasn't like she. Were they fucking? I think so. I think they actually were. I think it was one of her boyfriends. I could be wrong on that. But no, even if you just ask Grok, is that really true? [1:32:00] but not really. And that, but far and away men are the builders and maintainers of infrastructure and technology. And they always will be because the truth is women have had a hundred years to get into that stuff and they just don't really want to, they'd rather be interior designers or psychologists or things that are, um, you know, about people and social dynamics and aesthetics and stuff like that. I'm that way too. I have like a really strong intellectual logical side. I love debating and all that kind of stuff. Um,

[1:32:30] But I also love smelling babies' heads and dressing them in cute little outfits. And, you know, I love glitter and sparkly things, so... [1:32:37] It is what it is. Women don't want to go be men. [1:32:41] Right. That's what we're finding out after 100 years of this is that when you make women be men, they hate it. Like that lady that tried to be a man. Have you heard of that story where the woman tried to pose as a man for like a year and she ended up. [1:32:54] deleting herself, I think. Oh. Because it was so horrible. Like, it was so awful. Yeah. [1:33:01] she was like, life as a man is awful. It's tough. It's hard. Nobody cares about your feelings. Nobody's coming to rescue you. And I think women growing up in this era... [1:33:10] They don't think about when they turn on the light switch in the morning, how that happens. When they get in their car and drive to work, they don't think about who built the road they're driving on, who built the cars or designed them or who changes their oil as all men. When they flush the toilet, they don't think about, hey, if that toilet backs up or the sewage, you know, the sewer treatment plant has a problem. It's going to be men that go in and fix it. If there's a hurricane or an ice storm, who's going to be back out in the dangerous weather trying to rescue people

[1:33:40] to come and rescue all the people from the floodwaters and to put the power lines back up after the tornadoes come through. So far... [1:33:49] They have not [1:33:50] appeared. They haven't shown up to do the dirty, dangerous and difficult jobs that men do. And I'll believe them that what they want is equality when they start signing up for those jobs. Well, it's just such a bizarre perspective to think that it's not. [1:34:06] huge task to raise children yeah and to care for them and communicate with them and see to their emotional needs and and help them solve things and figure things out and help them with their schoolwork and just normal stuff that is so crucial to the development of a child and we've somehow because there's no monetary [1:34:28] You can't put a number on that, how valuable it is. It's not valuable. If it's not bringing in money, if it's not contributing to the GDP. Yes. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. [1:34:58] 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plan start at just $25 a month or get our premium Visible Plus Pro

[1:35:28] an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. [1:35:31] This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Okay, when it comes to sleep, [1:35:35] I've got to have the right temperature dialed in, depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot. I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness. The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get deep sleep, the kind of sleep that drives real recovery. And luckily, 8 Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible. [1:36:05] regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time. Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered. Use my code Rogan at 8sleep.com slash Rogan for up to $350 off the Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it. [1:36:35] love your investment in better sleep. That's code Rogan at eight sleep.com slash Rogan. That whole myth of women's unpaid labor. I'm glad you brought that up. I just finished a huge project I'm working on with Andrew, my excellent handsome husband, and Stephen Crowder, Dr. David Patrick Harry, and Rob Knorr, who's a champion debater. We put together a feminist debate course

[1:37:05] And we go over all these myths and debunk them. And we tell we show people and demonstrate like how to debate this feminism thing, because it's a leviathan. It's a beast. If you take it on, like one of the reasons I'm out here doing it is because when men try to argue against feminism or feminists, they immediately get slapped with you're a misogynist. You hate women. You're an incel. All the tropes. You have a small dick. What are you gay? Like just all the insults. Right. [1:37:35] get away with that. You have to contend with them because I'm a woman. [1:37:38] Right. You could try to insult me, but it's not going to land the same as when you do that to a man. So we put together this course to try to help people deconstruct the framing that's been built, question all the. [1:37:50] founding axioms that feminism was this good, necessary grassroots thing, that it's good for women, that if it ever went away, all the women would be chained to the stove in servitude, not allowed to learn how to read or drive a car. When you hear about like women's oppression in the Middle East, that's a result of Islam. [1:38:09] In Christendom, that was never a thing. Like, even in, like, ancient Christianity was... [1:38:14] one of the first places that women were really seen as full human beings. And a lot of it's because of the Theotokos, the mother of God, the Virgin Mary, being the Ark of the New Covenant that brought Christ into the world for man's salvation. She was even asked by an angel, and she said, let it be so. Which is so bizarre that modern feminist women support Islam. Yes, and they hate Islam.

[1:38:39] Christianity and they hate the Virgin Mary. They don't like her being an archetype of virginity and motherhood, you know, and strength and men's salvation. They don't like that, but they'll support Islam all day long. That's fine. [1:38:53] It's so strange. [1:38:55] It's so strange that it worked. It's so strange that something that goes against actual human nature is [1:39:03] somehow or another became the prevailing ideology amongst liberal women. Yeah. The – [1:39:10] occult aspect of it was very shocking. Yes. It was very weird. It was very shocking to me. You didn't know. When I started researching to put together the book, I thought it was going to be mostly about the funding of the feminist movement, the Jekyll Island Club, being the same guys that like... [1:39:28] went to the Jekyll Island in secret and put together the income tax and the Federal Reserve and the compulsory education system. I thought it would be mostly about that and the fact that women never wanted it, that women weren't the ones that just came together and demanded it. [1:39:42] And then I started researching all the popular figureheads and really reading their stuff because I was like... [1:39:47] This is a very unpopular... I'm making... [1:39:51] Pretty intense claims here. So I really have to be able to back it up and I better make sure I'm correct and I better make sure I'm accurate. Because whenever you're challenging a narrative this big, everyone's going to go through with a fine tooth comb and try to see where I'm wrong or see if I'm lying or see if I'm twisting things. So I did two and a half years of just reading feminist literature.

[1:40:12] It was rough, but I got through it. And what I found was... [1:40:17] Holy moly! [1:40:19] Most of these women, almost all, but certainly most, were into spiritualism, which was like a big 1800s movement of like trying to do seances and contact the dead and things like that. Theosophy, which combines like Eastern occult practices with like other Western traditions, ancient goddess worship, New Age stuff, and even Satanism and Luciferianism. [1:40:49] a book that's a PhD thesis by a professor from Norway. His name's Per Faxneld. I don't know if that's the way you pronounce it, but that's how it's spelled, P-E-R. It's called Satanic Feminism, his book. And now he himself is a Satanist. He's a Luciferian himself. So he sees it as a good thing that the women of the 19th century openly declared Lucifer as their liberator and the mascot of their movement. [1:41:16] Now, you would look back and think these were Christian women because they were in like New England and stuff in the United States, Puritan communities and things like this. But they weren't. In fact, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and a bunch of her friends wrote something called the Woman's Bible. [1:41:31] In 1895, where they rewrote the Bible from a feminist perspective and took out the things that they thought were oppressive and patriarchal. And in the intro, Stanton herself says, I think her husband was a preacher, maybe, or not really involved with the church at the time.

[1:41:52] But she said, I don't believe that any man has ever heard anything from God. I don't believe the Bible is divinely inspired. I think all of Christianity was made up specifically by men to oppress women. That's my personal belief. She was more of like a proto New Ager. She believed in like this monism stuff. And she said, if I could. Monism. Yeah, monism is like that kind of a lot of the New Age or even some of the DMT bros will kind of come to this conclusion that there's like a one that we have to return to. [1:42:22] we're all God and we forgot that we need to return to the one. Yeah, we're all God. I've heard that one before. Yeah, and we've got to return to the one. And they were writing about this stuff in the early 1800s. [1:42:35] transgenderism, gender abolition, gender as a spectrum, was being written about by Margaret Fuller in the 1840s. [1:42:42] in America. And she said, we're never going to return to the one in [1:42:47] As long as we have this gender division. So in the future, I'm envisioning a future with no gender. There's no men and women anymore. And she said nobody's really born a man or a woman. You're either you're on this spectrum and some people are more on the male side and some people are more on the female, but nobody is like... [1:43:05] fully one or the other. I had that argument once with a guy who was a professor. It was one of the dumbest conversations I've ever had on this podcast. And I eventually had to say to him, if you go buy a puppy and it's a boy puppy, but you wanted a girl puppy, do you say that there is no gender?

[1:43:22] What do you do? Right. Like, what do you do? Like, what are we talking about here? You're saying that some men don't exist, that men aren't real, that women aren't real, that no one is a man and no one is a woman. Like, that's crazy. How did you get here? You got here. [1:43:37] Because someone with an XY chromosome had sex with someone with an XX chromosome, and that's how it works. It's like a biological definition based on objective reality. Yes. Like, we all know that, but there's this weird fucking dance, and that dance, if you keep just asking questions, like, why is that dance? What are you doing? Like, why are you saying that? Like, what does that mean? Well, what about this? And what about that? It just falls apart. But yet they have this weird resistance to facts. Yes. Very strange. [1:44:07] This is why the occult was so appealing to these people and why. So like feminists are drawn to the occult and occultists are drawn to feminism because in most occult traditions, there is this idea of gender bending and gender fluidity and transcending gender. [1:44:23] in order to transcend to something higher, to become the stars again, or to become part of the one monad. [1:44:32] I'm reading all their backgrounds and they're all writing about this stuff. Many of them claimed to be automatic writers. So they would write a book about feminism, say it's not coming from me. It's coming from this entity that is speaking through me. Yes. Yeah. Like that kind of stuff. They would do that. They like Victoria Woodhull would claim to be able to contact the dead or they would just say this Christianity stuff is only here to oppress women. Lucifer was the good guy.

[1:45:02] Because he enlightened us and gave us free will. Luciferianism is very strange. Because you look at the definition of Luciferianism, you think, oh, they're going to say someone who believes that the devil is God. But it's not quite that. Please pull up Perplexity, our wonderful AI sponsor, and ask it what is the definition of it. [1:45:24] of Luciferianism because when I went down this rabbit hole with your book, I looked this up. So it's very strange. Diverse belief system, by the way, [1:45:34] That's a weird way to say a diverse belief system that reveres Lucifer, not as a Christian devil, but as a symbol or deity of enlightenment, knowledge and human potential. Yes. [1:45:46] Lucifer. Yes. Fucking Satan. The guy who rules hell, where everybody burns for eternity. [1:45:52] Luciferians emphasize self-improvement, free will, and intellectual pursuit over traditional religious dogma. They view Lucifer as a lightbringer or liberator, often drawing from pre-Christian figures like Prometheus. Practices may include ceremonial magic, but the focus is typically on personal empowerment rather than the worship of evil. [1:46:17] But that's a trap door, isn't it? Yes, it is. That's what it seems like. It's exactly what it is. It seems like a trap door. Just the way they describe it, you're like, oh, well, that's me, man. I'm into self-improvement. And that's where you get, that's why it's, we're all God. I'm God. And that's where you get moral relativism. Secular humanism comes from, Luciferianism, by the way. And in the 20th century, almost all the feminists signed, like, the humanist manifestos and things like that. The secular humanism stuff where it's like morality is subjective.

[1:46:47] Right for you at the time is what's right and what's right or wrong for me at the time. And there is no objective moral facts. By the way, the reason they get away with rewriting the history on feminism is because they use something called standpoint theory. And this is a an epistemological framework that asserts that there is no such thing as objective historical truth or facts. There's no objective timeline of history. There are no historical facts. [1:47:17] by white patriarchal oppressors to perpetuate [1:47:21] their patriarchal oppression. Oh, boy. So we can't know the real history unless it's told from the perspective of the most oppressed woman. And so that is how they rewrote everything. And the stuff you're getting from their textbooks, the things you're being taught in university, you're being taught. [1:47:37] is this stuff. It's not... [1:47:39] Anything having to do with objective historical timeline. So Lucifer appears explicitly only once in the Bible in Isaiah 14, 12, King James Version. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning? How art thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations? [1:47:59] uh, [1:48:02] Original context. [1:48:04] Uh, uh, um, Lucifer translates from the Hebrew term, meaning shining one, bright one, or light bear often linked to the morning star.

[1:48:17] Yes. [1:48:18] just [1:48:19] I think the later link in the later history is [1:48:24] the hell and say... Scroll back down again with that... Stop right there. It says... [1:48:31] Oh, not originally a proper name or reference to Satan. [1:48:35] So, but that is Satan though, right? So. That's who became Satan. Yeah. Right? So it's like Lucifer before he went bad. The old days. Like the Beatles, the early albums. Yeah. I don't think so. [1:48:44] No? So Lucifer's not Satan? No. What? Well, the Orthodox tradition is that he is, and there's multiple names for him. So sometimes he's called the adversary, sometimes he's called different things. The [1:48:55] The modern Protestant interpretations of things, because they use sola scriptura, there's a ton of, like, word concept fallacies where they think this word always refers to this one thing. And they're not correct about that. So, like... [1:49:09] our church tradition says, yes, he is Satan. He is the adversary. He's, you know... [1:49:15] the evil one. He's got lots of names. I think Lucifer is like his name is an angel, but, but so he was a fallen angel. Yes. Come Satan. Yeah. So what, [1:49:25] But obviously if someone is not just a fallen agent, becomes like the worst – [1:49:31] being in the world or in the universe. Like, how could you ignore that and only concentrate on the self-improvement part? Could you name that after somebody else? Aren't there a lot of other self-improvement people in the Bible? [1:49:43] Well, that's the thing. It just seems tricky. What this really comes down to, like the name of the book is Occult Feminism. It has two meanings. The first meaning is a lot of these women were really into the occult. Right. That's the most obvious one. But the second one is occult. The term itself just means hidden. And there's a whole history here that's been completely intentionally hidden from occult.

[1:50:05] both women and men, but specifically from women, that if they knew it, I think they'd have a whole different view of this movement. And they would question a lot of its foundational grounding axioms and and all the presuppositions we have that it was to protect women. So if if we look at that, if we look at the promises of feminism. [1:50:24] The promises we were told, it's going to protect you from abusive men, from unhappy, abusive marriages. It's going to give you more freedom and more choice in your life. Those were the selling points and the things we were promised. But if you actually look at the statistics, you look at the outcomes of what's happened since feminism became dominant and we pushed women into the workforce, we discouraged them from, I mean, antinatalism is so rampant. [1:50:54] They call them... [1:50:55] crotch goblins they call them you know sex trophies all these like uh derogatory terms for children and parents and you see the dual income no kids people the dinks making all their like tick tocks about like a day in our life is dinks we went to the taylor swift concert last night and then we slept in extra late and then we had brunch and smoked a joint like you know chelsea handler look we have no responsibility we live purely for ourselves we do whatever we want [1:51:25] of [1:51:26] Do you want to be self-sacrificial and give of yourself for something greater that goes into the future long after you're gone? This greater purpose that you might never even see fully the fruits of.

[1:51:40] in your lifetime. [1:51:42] Or do you want to party and have fun and go after what you want now and be kind of hedonistic, kind of selfish? And that's the Luciferian paradigm. Like even the satanic temple guys, Anton LaVey and all those guys, they said, look, we're not even like deistic Satanists. We just think... [1:52:00] I'm my own God. I decide what's right for me. I do what I want in my life for my own fulfillment. And nobody is entitled to anything from me. I decide if and when I want to give anything to anyone. This life is for me. Those are kind of the two... [1:52:16] sides you kind of end up on. And so when I say a cult, I kind of mean that too. I kind of mean like, yeah, raising five kids was really hard. I didn't buy fancy new clothes. I didn't get beauty treatments. I didn't do much of anything for myself. I went like 20 years with no sleep. It was, you know, it is hard work, but... [1:52:37] My children and hopefully their children, who is who I wrote this book for when I wrote it, I thought it was going to be like, I didn't know I was going to be here talking about it. I thought it was going to be for like my grandkids and my great grandkids and things like that because I wanted them to. [1:52:50] know this stuff. [1:52:52] Um, [1:52:53] That's hard. It's hard work. [1:52:55] On the front end of that, the first 20 years that you're raising kids, it feels kind of thankless sometimes. It feels tough. And you go, what am I doing all this for? So my friends are out at the concert. They're partying. Every job feels like that. Yes. So when you put in all that hard work and sacrifice on the front, now I'm in my mid-40s. My kids are all grown.

[1:53:15] I have children that are like in their mid-twenties adults. My youngest is in high school. [1:53:20] I have more time to do other things. That's why I said we give women backwards advice. We tell them, spend all your fertile years on [1:53:28] building an education and a career. And then later, if there's time for a family, maybe you can do that if you want to be weird. [1:53:35] What we should tell women, I think, is you can do a lot of things. I'm not saying you only have children and you never do anything else. And that was never the case historically. It was never the case. [1:53:48] I had my first child at 20. I had my last one at 32. [1:53:51] I got a lot of living, God willing, you know, that I'll be able to do other things. I'm doing this now. Once I have grandkids, you probably never see me again, because hopefully I'll be doing a lot with that. I'll have time to do things for my church, for my community. [1:54:07] I could do anything I want. I can garden. I can write books. There's a million things you could do. And that was always the case. This idea that women didn't have choices before feminism is nuts. They were writing novels. They were supporting themselves, you know, doing all kinds of other things. And what's happened after feminism is now I think you don't have many choices because like my daughters, my my second oldest is like, I would love to just get married right now and have kids.

[1:54:37] I find a husband like between 18 say I don't find a guy till I'm 23 what do I do for those five years just stay at home and twitle my thumbs like what do I do do I get a job I [1:54:46] She feels like she doesn't have choices. [1:54:49] She would love to stay home and have kids. Most of the women who write to me are like, I had one lady write to me and say, [1:54:56] I... [1:54:57] Ever since I got together with my boyfriend and started going to church with him, [1:55:00] All I can think about day in and day out is getting married and having kids. I daydream during the day about my future children and I dream about them in my dreams at night. That's all. Everything in me wants to do that. But I'm in my last year of dental school. [1:55:14] And I have all this debt and my parents fully expect me to graduate and start a dental practice. And if I told them I'm not going to do that, I'm just going to stay home and have kids, they would lose it. [1:55:24] They would probably disown me. They would think I'd lost my mind. They would say, are you kidding? You can't do that. And I talk to women all the time who feel like they're trapped. [1:55:33] that way. [1:55:34] And the truth is, feminism didn't make anything safer for women. It did the opposite. If you look at, we have so much data on this, cohabitative relationships where you just live with your boyfriend, you know, [1:55:45] have a 35% higher domestic violence rate than married couples. [1:55:50] If you look at child abuse, there's something called the National Incident Study. I have a whole breakdown of this on my Substack, too. It's gone over the last 45 years of all the data we have from every reporting agency in the country. It's the most comprehensive one. For the last 45 years, [1:56:06] Um...

[1:56:07] Children who live with married children [1:56:10] Biological parents are 12 times safer on every metric, whether it's sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, sexual abuse. [1:56:19] by a factor of 12 times safer than any other living situation. And kids that come from disrupted family living situations like mine, where you got divorced parents and like dad's got a girlfriend, mom's got a new husband, those sort of things. [1:56:34] Those are all far, far, far unsafer for children on every level that we look at. And then if you look at kids from fatherless homes, the risk for everything. [1:56:45] Addiction, learning disabilities, mental health problems, ending up in a juvenile facility, being homeless. It's like between 70 to 85 percent of kids in those situations come from fatherless homes. [1:56:58] So what we've done is, [1:57:00] over the last 50 years, is take... [1:57:02] dads and husbands [1:57:04] out of the home and replace them with the government. [1:57:07] And it has made women and children more vulnerable to abuse, to abandonment, to ending up on welfare, to ending up in any number of bad situations that you can think of. It didn't protect us. [1:57:20] And I think if more women knew that, they would at least, you know, give it a second thought and be like, hmm. [1:57:27] Maybe the whole getting married and having kids thing isn't so terrifying. We don't fear monger women about what can go wrong if you dedicate your whole life to a career. [1:57:35] You know, we don't tell them, well, what if this happens? What if you try to be a brain surgeon and then you get Parkinson's and you can never work again? But what percentage of people in this country, families in this country require both parents to work in order to get by? Most. Most. So what's the solution to that? Well, I think it's not going to be quick. It's going to be a multigenerational project. But I think if you give women the choice, I believe Simone de Beauvoir when she said that if you give women the choice, more and more will change.

[1:58:05] choose to be moms and stay home at least more. Right, but what if they can't? If they can't. In this situation where specifically you're talking about, where they require two incomes in order to pay the bills. So that was me. So when Andrew and I got together and we had two kids of our own, we've now got a house full of kids. He's, you know, starting his career. He's making okay money, but nothing crazy. And we had to like move out to the country where it's cheaper. We had [1:58:31] I had I learned how to be a firearms instructor because I could teach a class on a Saturday, only be gone for one day of the week and make like 2000 bucks. So I could make like a week's worth of money only working one day a week on the day that he's home. So like my advice to people, I'm not super huge on giving advice because it depends. There's a lot going on that. I don't know your situation, but you have to get creative. Try to find things you can do on the side, things you can do from home. [1:59:01] of work is remote from homework. If you can do that and kind of [1:59:06] structure your day more around the kids and work at night, maybe when dad's home, things like that. That's kind of what you have to do. In an ideal situation. In an ideal situation, yeah. I wanted to talk about Jack Parsons. Oh, yeah. And all the craziness because we had gone over the fact that this guy was working for NASA. He was involved in rocketry. Yes. And yet he was an avowed Satanist. Yes. And he got involved in the whole feminist movement. Yeah.

[1:59:36] through his girlfriend, Marjorie Cameron, who was like an archetype of the Scarlet Woman. So Parsons was kind of like he created like a kind of an occult cult that was a breakoff from Aleister Crowley and had a lot of Crowleyan beliefs. And. [1:59:54] When he met Marjorie Cameron, she was like this rebellious redhead who smoked and drank and slept around. And like all the Hollywood dudes in his circle kind of liked her. A lot of his friends slept with her, too. And she was very into the occult and she was really into like witchcraft and ritual magic. And so was he. And so when they met, it was like instant chemistry. [2:00:24] stop doing sex magic together. [2:00:26] Like, that's all they did for a couple weeks. What's sex magic? So... [2:00:30] According to like Crowley and a lot of these kind of like more openly Satanist left hand path type of occultism, the sexual experience and the orgasm is super powerful because it can channel your emotions in a way that nothing else can. You get like this big surge of energy and emotion that will make whatever spell or ritual you're doing more powerful. [2:00:52] So Crowley's favorite thing to do was sodomize. [2:00:55] Fellas. [2:00:56] in order to... [2:00:58] worship demons or invoke demons. [2:01:03] Yeah. He had, he had pets. He had dudes that were his little, his bottoms for his, I need to go, uh, was Crowley gay or bisexual? Yeah.

[2:01:13] He was bi. He had a lot of women he would do this stuff with, too, but he thought that the homosexual stuff, basically the more degenerate it is, the more intense it's going to make the spell. Oh, boy. So he casts spells while he's butt-fucking. Yeah. Woo. Yep. Woo. And then you add a little bit of hallucinogenic drugs in there, too. [2:01:33] And so that's where you really get the good stuff. What impact did all these people have on feminism? So, I mean, Parsons was also friends with the guy who came up with Scientology, Hubbard. Yeah. And they actually fought over Marjorie Cameron for a while. And when Parsons died because he blew himself up, you know, at home working on a rocket, he blew himself up. Cameron didn't handle it well. She freaked out. [2:02:03] cult of like moon children. So nuts. It's so nuts. She specifically recruited like all different races of people. Like she focused on finding dudes to impregnate her supposedly to make moon children who were going to like bring the Antichrist and they'd go out into the desert and live on this ranch together and do a bunch of peyote. And she made like art. I have some of her art in the book. This crazy weird looking crazy art. [2:02:30] One of her paintings is called Peyote Vision. It's wild. But she was doing all the sex magic stuff to try to like reincarnate him to try to bring about the Antichrist. She thought she was the Scarlet Woman that was going to be like the Antichrist version of Mary where the Antichrist is born through this Scarlet Woman. And it's references to Babylon and the end times in the Bible and all this stuff, which Crowley did all that stuff too.

[2:02:54] And she was a feminist icon because this stuff goes along with being rebellious. It's it's there's a reason there's like an archetype of feminists, like a stereotype that they're all they have daddy issues. They're man haters with daddy issues because they kind of are. It's usually like they're very against God. They're very against their dad. Like, you can't tell me what to do. You're not the boss of me. I'm a strong, independent woman. I'm going to get what I want, even if I have to use my sexuality to do with it. [2:03:24] don't have the monopoly on force. Men do. [2:03:27] So what do women have to get power, sexuality and the power of like determining who gets to reproduce? Did you know that we all have twice as many female ancestors as we do male ancestors? [2:03:40] No. So throughout history, genetic studies show that twice as many women have been able to reproduce as men. Right. [2:03:47] because that's where our power is. Our power is, if you're a fertile female, someone's going to fertilize you. You don't have to be special or do much. As a man, you have to compete. You have to have resources. You have to out-compete the other men who are trying to get the female pregnant, that sort of thing. And a lot of men historically died in battle really young or doing dirty or dangerous jobs. You know, they died younger a lot of times. Or in war. And then you'd have war brides, you know,

[2:04:17] their homeland, that kind of thing. So [2:04:19] Yeah, we have this, that's where women feel that their power lies is in sexuality. That's why every pop star and every movie star who's a famous woman, for the most part, there's a handful of exceptions, but most of them, [2:04:35] They'll do anything to stay hot. [2:04:37] You know, they're trying to be sexy at 70 like... [2:04:40] Who was that? Jane Fonda. Sexy at 70, sexy at 80. You know, she's going to be sexy forever. Hearing bones crack. Ow, my hip. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I mean, Jennifer Lopez is kind of doing that, too. She's had how many husbands and engagements and divorces and she's still out there in the thong shaking it on Vegas, you know, her Vegas shows and stuff. And, yeah, she looks good. [2:05:04] She's got endless money to do endless things to look good. Lord knows what they're doing. [2:05:11] That's where women think their power comes from. So Cameron was like big into pushing this into the California like counterculture in the 60s. And at the time, this was like, well, in the 50s and 60s. So like even people like Sammy Davis Jr., who's another guy that said he was a Satanist. Sammy Davis Jr. was a Satanist hanging out with Sinatra. Yeah, that's what he said. Now, you wonder sometimes if they just say that for shock value. I don't know. Or maybe they had fun parties. [2:05:40] Oh, they definitely had. They were having Diddy parties before Diddy was around, you know what I'm saying? So Cameron was the it girl in the counterculture in L.A., and her art was really popular and stuff.

[2:05:51] There's a lot that kind of came out of her popularity that went into the mainstream later in like these Scarlet Women archetypes of like the sexy bad girl who's rebellious and is undomesticated and unattached. You know what I mean? And that's become the cool girl now for a lot of people. And that's why, like, you'll see celebrities talking about, oh, I've had four abortions. Yeah, so what? I do what I want and I'm not going to be held down by no man or no baby. [2:06:21] out here and I decide. That's why you see women screaming about how abortion is great. They go to these rallies and they're just like, [2:06:30] screaming the most horrible things. And I think... [2:06:34] If you convince enough women that motherhood and having babies is like this horrific, oppressive ball and chain, which is what my mother was convinced of. She was totally convinced. She said to me once, having children is the worst thing that ever happened to me. No offense. [2:06:47] Thank you. [2:06:48] She said, no offense, but it's the worst thing that ever happened to me. And I asked her once, I was like, what is it that you would have gone and done? [2:06:55] You know, if it weren't for having kids, she had no idea. She had no answer. [2:06:59] She just knows that it would have been great. You know what I mean? So it's like... [2:07:03] They use a lot of fear of missing out. A lot of indoctrinated. Yeah. Yeah. And then that becomes your primary narrative and you believe it no matter what. And you just default to that no matter what. Yeah. [2:07:15] And all your discomfort is because of this thing. [2:07:18] They've already identified this is the problem. Patriarchy, men. I got saddled down with kids. That's why I'm miserable. Not because I'm completely unproductive. I don't have a good community. I'm not healthy. Right. All of the above. Isn't it weird? Have you ever noticed, like, all the videos women will make about how they get a divorce? I just went through my divorce, and then I had a post-divorce glow up. They lose 40 pounds. They get in shape. They get their hair done. Then maybe get a little plastic surgery, a little Botox, a little filler. And they're like, look at me now.

[2:07:48] If you had done that while you were married, you'd probably still be married and having a great time with your husband. Perhaps the husband's a fucking loser. Sometimes. A lot. That happens. There's a lot of losers out there. That's true. There's a lot of guys I wouldn't want to hitch my wagon to. That's true. If I was a woman, like, count on this fucking dipshit. [2:08:06] to figure things out? I think that's the other result of the sexual liberation stuff, though, is like... [2:08:13] What motivation do men have to be like good, dependable, upstanding providers when they can just sleep around and be fuckboys and losers and idiots? That's where the dating apps are so crazy. It's so crazy. Like you're on a date. Someone says one thing you don't like. Like, let me just pick up my phone and see who else is around. Yeah. It's crazy that so many people are on those things. And you're just like constantly inundated by options. I've never been on a dating app. [2:08:43] in life. Never been on a dating app. I've been with Andrew for almost two decades now. So it's like, I missed that whole thing. I feel like I caught the last chopper out of NAMM. I have some friends that met wonderful people on dating apps. [2:08:55] Like I have a good buddy of mine who met his girl on a dating app and he loves her and they have a great relationship. [2:09:02] It can happen. Sure. It's just like just people that you don't want to go to a bar. That's not the type of people you want to meet in the first place. How do you find them? And they have like certain dating apps that are like more selective, I guess. Yeah. About like what are you into? Try to pair someone up who's like-minded. If you're alone and you're busy with other stuff and you find it very hard to meet someone, I would match. It's really interesting.

[2:09:23] But then also, if you're a young person and you're just trying to bang it out out there on the streets and, you know, you got 14 people hitting your inbox and pictures of your abs and you're fucking flexing or whatever it is, you know, like that is chaos. And I don't think people are supposed to have those kind of options. No, you didn't. [2:09:45] You never did historically. It's only been like 15 years. It used to be your area where you live. Right. Those were the people to choose from. And you'd find the best person for you. Right. In that. Like I taught, I interviewed my grandma on my YouTube channel when she was 97. And I asked her, like, when you and Aunt Thelma were, when Thelma and Lois were looking for, you know, husbands in the early 40s, like, what were the things you guys were looking for? What did you think about when you were like looking for a guy? [2:10:15] to have a good reputation. He had to come from a nice family, you know, because you're going to, you know, when you marry a guy, you marry his family. So you got to think about that. I wanted him to go to like the same type of church as me and believe the same things. And he had to, you know, have good job prospects, you know, a good future prospects, because, you know, you want to raise a family and, and those sort of things. She did not say six foot,

[2:10:45] She's very long-term minded. Do you know what I mean? She's thinking of the future. I don't even feel like I did that. I feel like when I was young, I was stupid and I was like, he's cute and funny. That's good enough for me. [2:10:58] You know? Well, it's like there's normal preferences that people have, like to big, tall guys, fit people, wealthy people. That's the normal things. [2:11:09] But it's like the thing about today and all the options is not just that. It's all the performative stuff that people do consistently and constantly online. So then you're also looking for positive feedback from strangers constantly. Yes. And then you're also reflecting on negative feedback from strangers constantly. Yeah. [2:11:39] where they're always pretending to be someone that are not online, and they're using filters and cars that they leased. And, you know, it's very strange. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. [2:12:09] time before it starts. There's also no long-term contracts and no technician appointments. You can get a custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive

[2:12:39] That's half off at SimpliSafe.com slash Rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. [2:13:01] sink your teeth into them, Goldbelly will ship them to you anywhere. [2:13:06] And you've heard me talk about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles from L.A. Man, now you don't have to sit in L.A. traffic to get some of that chicken. Just order on Gold Belly. So ship, Dad, something awesome from the most iconic restaurants across the USA. Go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with the promo code ROGAN. That's goldbelly.com, promo code ROGAN. Yeah, I have four girls, and I made a point to always show them. [2:13:36] I'll show them. Here's Kylie Jenner before all the, like... [2:13:42] Probably hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work that she's had done in professional stylists and trainers and all the facial augmentations and all the different things that they get done. Here's what she looked like. Just any normal girl from your junior high. The only reason she looks like this now and on top of all the work and everything else, there's filters and there's apps that they edit everything with. And I'm like, this isn't real. Right.

[2:14:12] what my butt looked like, if my nose was too big, like all the things that they hype. These girls like pick themselves apart today. Yeah. It's terrifying. It's like heartbreaking. I think boys do the same thing. They're like, I'm short. It's over for me. I might as well self-delete. I'll never be anything because I'm short. And I'm like, well, what percentage of guys are incels today? It's kind of nuts. It's pretty high. It's really high, like higher than I like. There was a percentage of men that don't have any sex at all right now. And it's nuts. But it's that thing. [2:14:42] Like 20% of the men are desirable to 100% of the women. Right. And those 80% of guys are fucked. Yes. [2:14:51] Yeah, I don't... [2:14:52] I don't know what we do about that. I don't have a great answer for that. I've tried kind of like talking like I'll go on the whatever podcast once in a while and kind of like ask girls probing questions about that. Like, yeah. [2:15:05] Do you think it's possible that you could be missing it? Like if you're 22 and you won't date a guy because he only makes 50 grand a year, it's like, yeah. [2:15:12] Well, my husband only made 40 grand a year when we met, but he makes way more than that now. Like you used to grow together and and having a family really motivates a man to like hustle and grow whatever it is that he's doing and try to be better. [2:15:26] But it's like if you're 22 and you're like, I won't even look at you unless you make six figures, you're missing out on a ton of great guys. And it's like, what exactly do you want? What are you looking for? And they don't even know. Well, they're kind of programmed towards hypergamy today, right? It seems like they're programmed to go after the super successful, hyper successful people and not think, oh, I'm developing a relationship with a man and we're going to grow together.

[2:15:52] Yeah. And they have it. This is true. We know there's problems with men, but we talk all the time about problems with men. And I think what we tell women is you're perfect how you are. You are a goddess girl and you don't have to change for anybody. Right. [2:16:07] That's what we tell women. But then, how many of those women are now on Ozempic? [2:16:12] That was crazy. All of the fat. All the body positivity women are all like 120 pounds now. They look like they're making weight at the UFC. Yeah, all the fat and beautiful influencers are now just like. Skeletons. Yes. It's so fucking strange. Kind of gave the game away. You see like Kelly Osbourne on TV. God bless her soul. I don't know if she's doing that. But I know a lot of them, they just get so thin. [2:16:37] about being a little bit chunky and having a big butt and that boys actually like that better and the minute she can get a glp1 she's like never mind [2:16:45] Yeah, a lot of people did it. A lot of people did it. Lizzo did it. Yeah, it's, uh, but it's [2:16:52] This is the thing I always say to men when they tell me, like, oh, I don't want to work out. I don't want to do any of those things. Why do you do it? Why do you waste all your time doing that? I go, if I could give you a pill. [2:17:01] that could make you really strong, like instantaneously really strong and able to like strangle men, like you could kill people with your bare hands, you wouldn't take it? [2:17:11] Do you want to be vulnerable? Do you like it? Well, there's no pill. But if you just work, you can become that. You can become a different type of man. Yeah. Like that's possible. Yeah. [2:17:20] But you don't want to do it, so you want to dismiss it as being silly. Well, why would it be silly to have –

[2:17:25] power. [2:17:26] It's to have strength, to have a physical body that can like move things around easier, that can hold people down if you have to. If there's something terribly wrong, you can defend yourself. Why would you not want to have that? Well, everybody wants that. It's just it's an incredibly long path to get there. So they're fucking scared of it. So they dismiss it. Yeah, it's the same thing as raising kids, right? It's like so I lifted weights for kids. [2:17:52] It's been like 18 years. And there were periods where I was really lean and I looked fantastic. And then there were periods where like I and I lifted all through my pregnancies and everything. Thank God. And I highly recommend it, because if you don't want to have like. [2:18:05] A lot of the complications you can have post-pregnancy, like pelvic floor issues, birthing issues... [2:18:12] Get really strong and squat. Heavy. [2:18:15] be able to do some heavy deadlifts and stuff, all that stays really strong and it really helps with your health. I had a doctor that told me I wasn't going to walk again after my fourth baby because my pelvic bone separated when I birthed her. You're not going to be able to walk? Yeah, she was like, you should just get a walker. Oh, my God. You're not going to be able to do that. That lady was so callous. I know. I was like. That's so crazy. There's no rehab. There's nothing you could do. By that time, I knew that most doctors give you advice based on liability. They don't want to get sued.

[2:18:45] I hurt myself and then it's her fault. It's so funny. So I just went right back to, I'm just going to start with like, [2:18:50] literally lifting my legs in bed and then I progress and now I've got nothing wrong with me I'm super strong as I'm fine but it's the best thing to do and through all those years of lifting even when I was a little too chunky like after my son passed away I gained a lot of weight I could not care about myself for a couple of years I just couldn't bring myself to do it but I still went to the gym because it kept me sane it did more for me mentally than therapy [2:19:20] second. [2:19:21] It was a really great way to battle out all of the really strong, crazy emotions that I had. Just one more rep. [2:19:28] Until you're so tired that it's like a lot of the bad feelings and stuff you have... [2:19:33] you have some clarity and you can kind of figure it out. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's one thing that I think would be a good way to develop more men is to encourage them into doing difficult things and difficult, hard work and specifically physical things. Cause I think your body has a certain amount of requirements in order to maintain like a stable level of anxiety and mental health. I think, I think it's a giant fact. I know it's a giant [2:20:03] or something like that, I start getting batty. Me too. And I'm like, oh, this is like most people most of the time. Like that's a terrible way to live your life. Yeah, Andrew knows. If I'm out of sorts like that, he's like, you haven't been to the gym. Like we just moved across the country and there's so much that goes into doing that, especially when he has a business and everything and there's kids. And so it was like the longest I've taken off.

[2:20:27] ever, I want to say. Like even with kids and surgeries, I didn't have to take off that long. And finally got the home gym put in. He's like, oh, you're normal again. Great. You're mentally balanced again. It's great for women, too. If you're a woman that struggles with depression and anxiety, try pushing yourself really hard in the gym and you'll find out what you're made of. It doesn't mean you have to be stronger than dudes. It doesn't you're not going to. [2:20:49] get huge muscles because you don't have enough testosterone to do that unless you're taking gear or something. But get in there and work out. And then you have the added benefit of it's going to help you through childbirth and pregnancy. As you get older, you're not going to be fragile. [2:21:03] And need your kids to take care of you all the time. You know what I mean? Like, my parents both have terrible health, and I want to avoid that. So I'm trying to be like really proactive about keeping myself healthy, avoiding heart disease, diabetes, all these things so that my kids don't have to... [2:21:18] have a power of attorney and take care of me. Right. You know? Right. Um... [2:21:22] Is there anything else you want to cover in the book? Because it's a really – I didn't read it. I listened to it. The guy who was reading it was a very odd voice. It was very odd. I really wish you read it. [2:21:36] want my husband to narrate it. I've asked multiple other people to narrate it and I can't get anybody to do it. I would love to do a reproduction. He actually did that for free. [2:21:47] Because he thought it was, he was like, this book is so important. I'm happy to do it. He just sounds like he has a bit of a sinus infection. Yeah. He's got an odd voice. Yeah. Which is fine. But it's just like, it's the, the information is very fascinating. But I just, I always wish people read their own book in audio. Yeah. You know why I didn't? Because I think I sound like Lois Griffin and Sarah Palin had a baby.

[2:22:12] And I don't know that anybody wants to listen to hours of my voice. They do. [2:22:17] They're listening to it right now. Maybe I'll do it. Normal voice. Maybe I'll do it. It's all in your own head. Well, I have this upper Midwest, like, old guy, you know. That's fine. You're from the upper Midwest. It doesn't matter. But the point is it's like it's interesting because this is your work. It's your perspective, you know. Yeah. [2:22:36] it's it's really good yes a lot I'd say if I got to say anything else about it um [2:22:42] I did not write this book. [2:22:44] nor do I talk about these things or debate feminists because I hate women. I do not hate women. [2:22:50] I love women. I'm a woman. [2:22:52] I have daughters. I have women in my life that I love. And that's a crazy narrative. Yeah. Well, and people think they'll say, like, why do women act so crazy nowadays? Why are they all so crazy? And it's like, what do you think would happen if you took any group of humans and you said you are perfect the way you are? You are a goddess. You are strong, independent, whatever you are. You don't need to change. There's nothing to be improved upon. And if. [2:23:15] If you do something wrong, it's only because a man somewhere... [2:23:19] hurt you or did something bad. And that's the only reason that you would do like we've removed accountability. We've given women. [2:23:27] more power than the balance. I think there was a balance already before feminism, because you had women with the power over reproduction and mate selection and sexuality and motherhood and all the influence they have over men through those things. And then you had men with the monopoly on physical force and probably like political force and things like that.

[2:23:49] So there was kind of a balance. And what we did with feminism was we just completely threw it off. And now we're like, no, men, you stay down. You be quiet. You're toxic. You're bad. Like schools, public schools are terrible for boys. Sit down. Be quiet. Be like Susie. Just use the highlighter and organize things by color and be quiet and still and soft and nice. And, you know, we HR manage boys to death now. [2:24:19] but taking away all the accountability. And it's like, why would you not expect them to act a little crazy? Why would it not kind of spoil them? And I, I don't think women are inherently bad. I think what feminism has done has made them, [2:24:34] a worse version of who they would be otherwise. I think we need accountability and responsibility. We need to have some self-sacrifice in life. We need to have the same... [2:24:44] inherent human struggle that men have and that all people have had. And we did before. So every time you look in history, this is a key thing. If you are arguing with feminists, if you're looking at history and they say, look at this horrible thing, women couldn't have this or women didn't do that, or there was stigma around this. [2:25:01] Ask yourself... [2:25:03] Was that also true for men? Because it always is. It always is. Men didn't have this glorious, carefree existence, free of responsibility, where they had all the power and control, but none of the accountability. That's a lie. That's a myth. [2:25:16] But we've convinced women of that. So now we're trying to flip it the other way. And yeah, women are acting crazy. We have Bonnie Blue and we have like all these crazy OnlyFans girls and like the only women online besides me and a handful of others are boss babes and OnlyFans chicks and Instagram models and blue haired screeching feminists. That's what we ended up with. So it's like I wrote it.

[2:25:39] Because I think feminism is bad for women and I think it would help. I think it's bad for everyone and kids. I am no longer willing to sacrifice the welfare of children on the altar of feminism. [2:25:52] Ever again, I won't do it. And if you want me to... [2:25:56] Throw kids under the bus so that women can do blah. I don't care what it is. I'm not going to do it. I want to see kids growing up in loving families with both their parents. I want to see community again. I want to see families again. All the great stuff that we all lost from that, the loneliness epidemic, all the depression and the anxiety. Women have higher rates of substance abuse than ever in recorded history right now. Don't men also have higher rates of substance abuse? [2:26:26] with men. In fact, like Gen Z boys are [2:26:30] hardly ever drink. Like the marijuana, I think they use more. But what about opioid addiction? The opioid epidemic is... [2:26:37] Pretty much both. [2:26:39] because I think it's kind of medically based. A lot of people get something, you know, surgery or whatever. And then they get hooked. Yeah, and they get hooked on it, and then they got to go looking for it elsewhere. But women, we've never seen – [2:26:50] as high a rate of fetal alcohol syndrome in babies as we're seeing now. And alcoholism is much worse for women. Our bodies are smaller. Our livers don't handle toxic amounts of alcohol, even as well as a man's. It's bad for men. It's even worse for women. 26% of American women are on at least one psychiatric prescription drug.

[2:27:10] Yeah. That's nuts. That's nuts. And they did something there in my book I covered the [2:27:16] a big study called the paradox of female happiness. And this came out in 2008, I think it made huge waves where they did this giant survey. [2:27:26] of women. [2:27:27] They had done one in the 70s and they were repeating it, you know, 40 something years later to see like, OK, we've had a lot of feminism. Are women doing better? And on every metric they measured, women reported being less fulfilled, less happy and less content than they did in the 70s before they were like fully liberated. And they give a lot of reasons as to why, you know, the the. [2:27:50] burden of having to juggle work and home and the expectations of versus reality of what feminism sold them and things like that. And then they did a repeat study several years later that was even more comprehensive where they went to other countries. [2:28:04] and other societies and different types of places and did another survey about women's happiness, because now feminism is pretty global. There's only a few places in the world where it hasn't really taken hold yet. So they were like, we should check other places. And the authors of the study opened with something that I thought was kind of funny. They said, regardless of where you look... [2:28:26] Culture, economic status, religion, it doesn't seem to matter. Women everywhere and always are less happy than men. [2:28:33] And they said the reasons for that are somewhat biological. We have like hormonal fluctuations that men don't deal with, you know, things like periods and menopause and all that sort of stuff. And we're just less emotionally stable. Women experience three times the mental illness that men do.

[2:28:50] Thank you. [2:28:51] And it could be for many reasons. We could, like, try to tear all that apart. [2:28:56] Feminism hasn't made women happier. It hasn't made them safer. I don't think it's really given them more choices. It's just given them kind of different choices. And children are suffering the most. And when you tear apart the family unit, which is what the Marxist feminists said was their explicit purpose. [2:29:15] Because property rights are passed down through men. Men, you know, build businesses and own properties the most and pass it down to their kids. So they're like, we got to get rid of this fatherhood stuff, the patriarchy. We got to get rid of the family unit, especially like the Leninist ones. We're like, Lenin should be the daddy. [2:29:33] The government should be the daddy because you see that with a lot of. [2:29:39] socialist-leaning cities where they want the state to be in charge of things like decisions, whether or not a child can medically transition, that kind of shit. Yes, all that stuff. [2:29:51] It's... [2:29:51] All there for reasons, which are all detailed in the book, but it's basically a scam. And I feel like women have been grossly misled and horribly propagandized to believe a whole bunch of shit that's not even true. And if they read my book and if they look into it themselves, they double check all my sources, they go back and read everything themselves and they still believe it's better for them. That's fine. But I at least want them to know the truth and be able to make an informed decision about what. [2:30:18] why they're living their life the way they are, and if they believe this sort of stuff, and if they really accept this feminist framework or not.

[2:30:24] Well, [2:30:25] It's a really, really well-written book, and it's very fascinating. And I really enjoyed this conversation. Well, thanks. I'm so glad that you loved the book. I was really shocked that you liked it so much then. No, I really did. It was very... [2:30:36] It was eye-opening. Like how many of these people were full-on kooks, like that just abandoned their kids. And these are the people that everybody is looking to like, oh, she was a boss lady. Like she was a monster. She was a horrible person that didn't think anyone should have children. [2:30:54] Like there's so much of that in the book. It's really, really great. It's crazy. So here it is. Occult Feminism, The Secret History of Women's Liberation. Rachel Wilson. Go get it. Thank you. Thanks so much. It was fun. Bye, everybody. [2:31:21] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [2:31:32] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [2:31:46] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time.

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