#2464 - Priyanka Chopra Jonas

[00:00] the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day i won't lie i am nervous to talk to you come on how can you be nervous that's ridiculous [00:18] Like, I came in slightly intimidated. Why? Why? [00:22] I actually don't know the answer to that because we've never met. Yeah. So it's not like... [00:26] you've intimidated me but i just i'm really um i think i what i really enjoy about your show is just such an eclectic perspective on so many diverse things and it comes like so naturally to you um i really admire that well fortunately i don't have anybody pick my guests so it's all people that i'm actually interested in talking to so it's easy it's just stuff that's nice well thank you for for picking me oh my pleasure i'm excited to talk to you your movie is fucking crazy [00:56] I knew it was a pirate movie, but I just did not expect the ultraviolence. Like from the beginning, I was like, yo. Like I locked in immediately. I was like first scene. I was like, holy shit. Like this is crazy. [01:11] Well, thank you. That's a good thing, right? What was that like to – I mean, is it – [01:15] When you're doing something that's that hyper-violent, like, is that, does that freak you out at all? Like, you're cutting people open with swords and stabbing them in the neck, and it's like, holy shit. When you're doing it, you know it's like make-believe. So it's so much fun to be like, yeah, I'm playing pirates, and I'm going to behead you. But, I mean, in moments of, like, scenes and stuff where I actually had to think about what it must have been like to be a female at that time.

[01:45] Because they existed. Women, female pirates existed. And we just we didn't hear many much about stories about them. I mean, I heard about Grace O'Malley, maybe. [01:56] There were Mary Reed, like a few famous ones. Ching Shi, after I did my research. But like in those moments, you're like this stuff must have – like this was real. They lived at a time where it was survival of the fittest. It was barbaric. And I wonder what that must have been like. But besides that, the stunts and stuff, like I – [02:18] really have so much admiration for the amount of precision it requires to pull that stuff off from so many people, not just the stunt department, but like the cameras, because they're also moving in sync with you. [02:33] That's cool. It is cool. Is it hard to stay in the moment when all that is happening? Because you have so much coordination and there's so much choreography. There's like he's going to swing this way and you're going to block it and you're going to dive down. It's so complex. These are long, extended fight scenes. We had a lot of oners too, like the whole scene in one shot. Whoa. [03:03] of and I honestly love it because it brings you into that moment is so enriched with everything that you're supposed to feel between action and cut. So I do love a long oner.

[03:16] You know, I come from Bollywood movies, so we have a lot of [03:20] choreography, a choreography for like dance sequences where stories are also moving forward, like between, you know, your exchange of expression or something's happening somewhere else, you come back. So I treat sort of fight sequences like dancing. [03:35] You learn the choreography, but that doesn't stop your face from telling the story. [03:41] That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And, [03:43] I mean, it is kind of... [03:45] Just choreography. [03:47] Whether it's choreography with dance or choreography with movements with your hands and swords. I had never worked with blades before this movie, though. That was cool. [03:54] How much training did you have to do? Like when you found out that you're going to take the role, how much preparation did you have to do physically to get ready for all that stuff? It was a cool year for me because I was filming – [04:06] three jobs which were all action and stunts. So this movie called Heads of State, which I did for Amazon again, and then Citadel and this movie. So it was a year of three... [04:18] action-packed jobs. So the, you know, being agile and being in it was already part of what I was doing because that's what I was filming every day. But the swords... [04:26] training was tough and to be ambidextrous with it as well um so i had um my my son coordinator who was doing all three movies with me she in between shots she and i would just take our rubber swords out and do like choreography and rehearsals and but like it took at least three or four months of just staying in it and getting loose with it also because carl urban my co-actor

[04:56] Right. So he was amazing at it. So I didn't. [05:00] You know, in that last duel, I didn't want to... [05:02] any less than. So I kind of went at it. [05:06] No, you look very good at it. It was really good. Thank you. Did you work with some sort of like a kendo specialist or some fencing specialist? How did you learn how to move the sword correctly? It wasn't kendo, for sure. It definitely wasn't fencing. It was uniquely because the swords were... [05:25] Our director was very very excited about the weapons in this movie and wanting to get it really right from the period whether it was the guns that we used or the blades that we used. The machete was one of my favorite weapons in the movie because that's like her weapon in the movie because it's practical use it for coconuts use it for skulls same same. And that was really fun but our our. [05:51] You know, second unit director Rob Alonzo had so much experience in the amount of work that he's done prior. He came in with a very specific idea of wanting to make the fighting style super unique. [06:04] set piece like a different design of choreography so you know there was one which was in a dark cave so the only time you saw people was when the gunshot went off and just different styles of fighting um which i thought was really cool so but did you have like a professional trainer that taught you how to do that yes and so how would you do it would you do it with a real sword did you do it like well we had three different kinds of swords the real sword like weighs more than me it was insane i couldn't do it with the real sword as much but for filming and this is the

[06:34] the movies you know you have four different weights of it one is like the real sword where you need it for like you know where it's a close-up or the sword is really really visible um but when you're doing the big choreography you have like a lighter sword which is created by the props department and then another lighter one and when you need to flip it it's the lightest one because i was telling you all my all the that's good it's good to know that sucks oh no [07:04] It's impressive, period. And talking about my fencing, but no, it was movie magic. One of the things that I was thinking when I was watching it is like, how many takes did you have to do with this? Because that's got to be so hard to do. Because you're swinging this gigantic iron thing and clashing into other ones. And like, if you have to do three or four takes of this, your arm's going to be toast. Oh, we did like 10 hours of it every day for like seven days or something. Do you have shoulder problems after that? No, actually I didn't, but I was jacked. [07:34] Looked as good Now I mean I have a four year old And I lift her a lot So my arms are like alright But during this movie Oof Because we were just like At it Yeah And we both [07:44] threw ourselves at it, Carl and I, and it was a big choreography on top of this bluff. We shot on 100% of this movie. At least 90% is definitely on practical sets, real sets. We did not want to use a lot of VFX. So, you know, Phil Ivey, our production designer, we built the ships. We built the house. We built everything was a replica of what it would have looked like in the 1900s in the Cayman Islands. We went and saw it.

[08:14] Yeah. Well, the whole history of piracy is so fascinating. And one of the things that the movie is about is this the Carl Urban character is from he was one of the soldiers of the East India Trading Company. Then I went on a deep dive on the East India Trading Company. That is crazy. When you learn the history of that. [08:38] One corporation is one of the first publicly traded corporations. [08:42] that [08:43] Essentially, [08:44] was in control of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, went to war with China over opium, and that's how they took over Hong Kong. You're like, holy shit. [08:56] One crazy fucking corporation involved in the slave trade, the opium, just a corporation, publicly traded corporation. People could buy stock in it, like one of the first ones. And it just went haywire. [09:09] To the point where it got so big, there was a revolt, and then the British government took over it and nationalized it. But the whole story is insane. [09:18] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+. [09:38] Let's talk about Service Titan, the AI for the trades. The trades are the backbone of this country, and for the first time, they've got technology that actually matches the work. Over 10,000 contractors already use Service Titan software to run their businesses. Built by two guys whose dads were in the trades, this isn't some tech company guessing at solutions.

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[11:39] If you think about how much in their minds they were able to achieve and how much they were able to destroy, [11:48] in that duration is crazy if you go down history. Changed the course of countries forever. Human lives forever. Forever. Like the amount of pillaging that happened. Yes. Millions and millions of lives. And this movie actually has a really interesting slice of... [12:06] what they were capable of doing. They utilized pirates in order to, you know, take over new lands, right, and in their conquests. And then... [12:18] When piracy was abolished, they went after them and they wanted to arrest them and they vilified the same people that helped them build their entire empire. So this was really interesting because my character's story, her parents and her family are indentured servants, which was the truth of many, many people, especially in India, where young people were... [12:42] you know, told better opportunities, new lands, more money, come with us and take them off as servants and then drop them in different parts of the world and islands. And the Caribbean has a huge Indian community. [12:55] whose history started with just being displaced from their lands and dropped somewhere else in the world and then having to figure out what your future looks like. I mean, it still happens to many people. [13:08] many people around the world right now. But I thought it was really interesting that my character came from that and her entire identity was erased, taken from her. She had no idea. She was 12, so she had no idea what...

[13:22] it meant to have that identity. And I met so many people actually when I went to the Cayman community [13:28] who don't know anything about their family tree beyond like five generations or they know where their family may have come from, from Sri Lanka or from India or, you know, um, [13:40] any other nation, but I have no idea what, like, what it was, where, from what village, [13:48] Like what was your culture? And that ambiguity in, in a history of a human being, it raises a part of you. It, it, [13:57] It denies you of knowing the depth of your culture or where you come from or your roots. And I thought that was really, really interesting for my character to play and then reclaim herself through the journey of the movie. Well, it's a fascinating part of human history. Yeah. And it's taken place all over the world. [14:19] for a lot of cultures, they don't have an understanding of exactly what happened before they were colonized. Yeah. Like one of the great examples is Mexico. I went in a long deep dive on Mexico recently over the last few months, because I've had a bunch of people who are historians who came on the podcast who were just researching these ancient Inca and Mayan sites and talking to them about it. And then I went into it and it's like, [14:47] There was over a hundred different languages that are just lost forever. [14:52] in that whole what is now called Mexico.

[14:56] and [14:57] That's the reason why everybody over there speaks Spanish and is Catholic. [15:00] Like, it's not because that was their language and that was their religion. They were all conquered. Absolutely. I mean. By like 600 guys. Yeah. [15:09] That's what's nuts. [15:10] Yeah. 600 guys in the 1500s came over. [15:15] Took over, you know, what was the Aztec Empire with help of the people that they were – [15:20] in conflict with and change the course of the entire country. It's so many generations for forever. Like to this day, people in Mexico think they speak Spanish and they have a Catholic religion. Well, that's all brought over from Spain, like the entire country. [15:38] They had wild names, too, like Cacao, Thunder, Sky God, and all these different, almost like Native American type names. Wow. They looked like Native Americans. But if you think about it, doesn't that make sense? That makes so much sense. Yeah. They probably, like, shared land and crops and, like. Well, there was no real. There were no borders at that time. No, back then. I mean, what were countries in the 1500s in North America? Like, what was, we don't even know. Like, what was North America like? [16:08] America is technically super young like how many years 300 years 400 yeah less less than 300 years yeah and and like you were talking about history in in India [16:20] She has been invaded. [16:22] over thousands and thousands and thousands of years, only invaded. We've never invaded anybody else. She's not had the time. Yeah, the Portuguese, the British, the Mughals, like from back in time. And the history of India, I mean, I'm not a historian, and I don't claim to be, but I find it really fascinating. I love culture, and especially the culture of India. Like, you will

[16:52] raised in a part of India which was colonized and a lot of people with Kerala, a lot of people were converted into Catholicism. And she grew up Catholic and, you know, she followed it for a [17:09] How many people have kind of made it her roots? So when you go to India, the amount of diversity you will see, the kind of the range of people that you will meet is impossible to fathom. Like an Indian face does not look like a particular person or the amount of cultures, the languages we have written and spoken languages, which are almost. [17:32] like [17:33] 20-something or in their 30s. Absolutely different alphabet, absolutely different sound. I can't, if I go to another state, I won't be able to understand what people are saying. Wow. It's amazing. Wow. [17:46] How many different languages are spoken there? About 28 to 30. But there are dialects in there, hundreds. Oh, wow. Don't even get into the dialects. I just speak English and Hindi. Understand a little bit of Punjabi and Marathi, but it's really amazing. [18:04] Have you ever been, by the way? No, I haven't. Oh, Joe, you have to. You would really, like, you're the kind of guy who likes a deep dive. Yeah. You would really lose yourself, I think, in an amazing way. Well, I want to go just to see, for many things, but just to see that one immense temple that was carved entirely out of stone. Oh, yeah. It's one of the great mysteries of archaeology. But there are quite a few if you go, especially south of India, and the caves, if you go inside the Andaman and Nicobar,

[18:34] you see [18:35] from thousands and tens and thousands of years ago, illustrations that... [18:42] that you're like, how did this happen? How could this temple have been chiseled? Or how could these stones have been moved at that time? It made me very, very curious about what kind of tools did we have back then? Well, there's a lot of holes in human history. Yeah, for sure. Graham Hancock has a great quote. He says that we are a species with amnesia. [19:05] And I think that's accurate. [19:07] And I think when you find some of the great – [19:10] archaeological wonders. [19:13] where people just have decided, oh, they built it this way and then just let it go. And then other people start looking at it and go, wait a minute, how? [19:21] How did they do this? Like, when did they do this? Like, what's the what's the historical record of this? Because this is kind of nuts. This seems to indicate like a very advanced, sophisticated society. Yeah, a very advanced civilization. Like one of the oldest civilizations in the world, along with the Mayans, is the Indus Valley civilization, which is the north of India. [19:44] I just remember studying about it in school, and that's my... [19:48] my maximum understanding of that civilization, but also like having visited the Indus River, I guess. But I remember like the artifacts that were found and – [20:02] Like if you do a deep dive into how that civilization existed and then how it was erased, and, you know, it makes you question like...

[20:11] There had to be some seriously advanced scientific understanding that was eventually lost as, you know, [20:20] as human evolution happened, where we lose a civilization and then comes back again. But it just makes you wonder about early humans and how fascinatingly advanced we would have had to be. [20:33] to do all of that. 100%. [20:35] Without the technology and stuff that we have, I mean. I think they had technology. I think they had a different technology. I think so too. I think they had to. It's almost time for spring break. So maybe you're headed to the beach or maybe you're taking the kids on a road trip or maybe you're just taking some extra time for yourself. No matter what, you deserve a break and a reset and AG1 can help. AG1 is your daily health drink. [21:05] a healthy immune system and digestion. Plus, it travels really well so you can start working it into your routine even when you don't have a routine. Just slip a few travel packs into your luggage and have a nice flight. [21:18] I've talked about AG1 for a long time, and it's not just me. I know a lot of people enjoy it. It's very easy. It's very convenient, and you deserve to take care of your health. [21:28] Visit drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan, and for a limited time, get a bottle of omega-3, vitamin D3, K2, and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's an $111 value at drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan. This one particular temple that I'm talking about, Jamie, do you know the temple I'm talking about? The one insanely massive one that's built into the side of a mountain?

[21:58] This is it. This is crazy. This is what I meant. Because the precision... First of all, there's no understanding of where the stone went. [22:10] Like they moved who knows how many. How did you take out all of those tons of rocks? Yes. Yes. [22:16] It's so insane. The precision is spectacular. [22:22] It's so nuts when you see like videos of people going through it. Immense. [22:27] Absolutely immense and incredibly precise. [22:31] And just... [22:32] carved out of a solid piece of stone. [22:36] The whole thing is carved out of the mountain. Think about how old... [22:40] That is like this is all B.C. before Christ, like thousands and thousands of years. Yeah. B.C. [22:48] And the history of India, like, hence the diversity. You see, it's one of the oldest civilizations in the world. And then, like, how do you explain that? Look at that image. So it says it's 12. What does it say? How old did it say it was? 1200. How do they know that? I can't be right. [23:04] 1200 years old see there's a lot of just estimates based on what was the civilization at the time yeah and there's no like this is the the thing with peru like sacsayhuaman and a lot of these places attributed to the incas but you see like traditional incas structures on top of these immense stones that are a hundred tons they're carved from these weird jigsaw patterns is to

[23:34] Well, who did that? So like, oh, the Incas did it. Like, how? [23:37] How'd they do that? Because all their other structures are smaller stones stacked on top of each other in a way like you could see a person carrying them and cutting them. Makes sense. But there's a lot of stuff like that temple, like... [23:49] Explain to me what you used. There's no explanation. Like how? Like metal? You just use metal and carve that out like that? And like just a chisel and human. And if you fuck up once, it's over. Because you're not putting things on top of things like, oh, this block sucks. Let's get a new block. No, you're carving. Do you change the design if there's a fuck up? Like, you know what I mean? If you're trying to build. That's a good question. [24:12] like a human form and you chisel off the nose, do you turn it into something else? I don't know. Probably. Otherwise, because it's just one piece and you're right. You're not adding anything to it. Well, in Egypt, there's indications that they abandoned certain pieces because they cracked. Because when you're dealing with, you know, granite and there's certain, [24:34] specifically there's a gigantic obelisk that they were carving out. I mean, I think it was like 1,300 tons, like something bananas. [24:42] like okay how are you gonna move this fucking thing but they got to a certain point where there's a crack in it and so they had to abandon it and so it's still there yeah still I think that's an [24:51] It might be in Aswan. I'm not sure where it is. [24:55] You know, the theories around the Egyptian pyramids, obviously, like how were those blocks built? [25:02] carried up. [25:04] There's no valid theory. Zero. Zero.

[25:07] Was it in that shape and so precisely geometrically, you know? Well, it's even more complicated now because there's an Italian scientist that we had on recently called Filippo Biondi. Am I saying it right? Biondi? He's amazing accent, this guy. He's fucking incredible. But he's using, what is it? Radio Doppler tomography. Yeah. [25:29] So it's a type of satellite imagery that uses some technology to get a vision of what's under the ground. And they've used this successfully to show known caverns in the ground and known pyramids. And they even used it in Italy to show that they can look through a 1.2-kilometer mountain and see underneath it this particle collider [25:59] Collider and see what the outlet. So they use this on the pyramids and they found these immense structures under the pyramids that go over a kilometer into the ground with massive, these, these huge 20, 20 meter diameter columns that have these huge circular coils wrapped around them. No one knows what the hell they're looking at, but they're in very precise positions. They've done [26:29] hands of these things. They don't know what they are. They don't know what's the purpose of all this, who made this. So this turns out to be accurate. And they're very confident that it's accurate. And they're starting to look into it deeper. And they're trying to figure out how to get down in there and explore with drones or something. Then the whole thing gets thrown into question. Because it's preposterous enough that you have someone who's able to

[26:59] 300,000 stones that's perfectly aligned to true north, south, east, and west. Some of them weigh as much as 80 tons. Tons, which is insane. They come from 500 miles away through the mountains, no roads. Like, how'd you do it? [27:12] That's crazy. That's crazy in itself. But if there's structures underneath that that go – [27:18] a kilometer into the ground. And like, there's a giant, like a huge square at the bottom. They don't know what it is. But these are structures. These are not like something that is just a naturally occurring stone. Yeah, it was manmade. And show her an image of it. It's [27:33] Fucking kooky. So what? Is that like how... So these are these columns... [27:38] This is like what the images are showing and the three-dimensional replication of what they think is... [27:43] That's what they think it looks like underneath there. [27:46] They have no idea what these things are. What? What? [27:50] There's also... [27:52] Is that Hawara that has that underground labyrinth? [27:57] They've also found – Herodotus wrote about these labyrinths. There's a great channel on YouTube called Uncharted X by this guy, Ben Van Kirkwick, who's been on the podcast before. He's great. And – [28:09] They've used radio – well, they used ground-penetrating radar in that location. They found that these immense labyrinths are real. They're huge. Herodotus said it's greater than Giza, and it's underground. [28:25] and [28:26] In the center of one of these atriums, there is a 40-meter metallic object that's shaped like a tic-tac.

[28:34] It's in the center of this. Yes. Yes. [28:37] So... [28:37] There's a bunch of shit that they don't – they can't explain down there. [28:42] Where you're like, okay, what is this? They also know that a lot of these civilizations, like later versions of it, took from some of the older sites and started building new things or built on top of them, like very disrespectfully. But – [28:55] Nobody had an idea of, like, the importance of history back then. You're just trying to stay alive. And so they found all these stones. Let's use these stones. Oh, my gosh. Totally. In India, like, when we were colonized, you hear stories of, you know, the British – [29:09] officers telling like little kids that, "Hey, I'll give you two pounds, go and get the gold statue from this temple or whatever." And you don't have comprehension of what the value of historical things were that there was so much that was taken from India in terms of wealth and history and historical artifacts and the Kohinoor diamond, which is still on the Queen's crown. [29:34] which came from India. And like so many things. The Queen of England? Yeah. Yeah. [29:39] She has a diamond on her crown that she stole from her. Can you pull it up? Kohinoor Diamond. K-O-H-I-N-O. Give it back. Give it back. Yeah, we've been asking for it for a minute. We have. [29:53] Although the history of England and India is nuts too. That's the diamond. Whoa. How big is that sucker? The crown of the queen. [30:00] How big is that thing? [30:02] How big must that be? [30:04] Thank you. [30:04] Thank you.

[30:06] I think it's over. [30:06] 100 carats. [30:07] Whoa. [30:09] What is that worth? Besides the historical... [30:13] value of it which is probably priceless what is a 105 carats worth [30:18] That's nuts. [30:20] Imagine walking around with a rock like that in your hand. [30:24] Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying. The royalty in India had so much jewelry and wealth and stuff that was pillaged and just taken. [30:33] Well, the history of India is fascinating, like in the Vedic texts and the descriptions of Vimanas. Have you ever read any of that stuff? Yeah, the Vedas. Not extensively, but clearly you have. The Vimanas, it's like, what are you talking about? You're talking about flying crafts? Yeah. [30:52] Like, what do you... [31:18] And there's so much of all of this stuff referenced back then, which maybe humans thought was magic, but was some form of ancient technology. Like who's to say? But we do definitely believe in Indian mythology. If you go back into Hinduism and and the incredible stories that exist, like I love to think about where the origin, like where it must have come from. Yeah. But there's so many fascinating, fascinating stories from then.

[31:48] Yeah, I have an opinion that... [31:51] Most people that were writing things down back then were trying to document a truth. [31:56] Yeah, for sure. I don't think they were trying to make up. No, I think it was definitely their truth. Yeah. From our perspective. Now we have to be like, how do you break down the truth of, you know, that there was this light that arrived from miles and miles away and it felt like, I don't know, was it a bomb? Like, what was it? What was it of that time? Right. So it's cool to kind of try and interpret that. I mean, I believe in the mysticism and the magic of ancient humans. [32:26] of time, there's no way to explain [32:29] what and how that was. You know, we have the information we do from religious texts and historians of the past, but it's just really fascinating to think about how resilient and human beings have been and how evolutions have had the same problems over time, but we can't. [32:49] kind of just navigated [32:51] through different worlds, you know? I think it's hard for us to grasp timelines. [32:57] And [32:58] How would it be impossible to... [33:00] Think about how short a human lifespan used to be to where it is now. Our stories have to come from people telling people stories or documenting them. [33:13] And those stories... [33:15] Like when you're talking about certain passages in the Bible or certain passages in any religious text, a lot of those were stories that were just handed down for generations and generations before anybody wrote anything. Yeah. So it's like, what were they trying to remember? Yeah.

[33:32] Like when they're talking about flying Vimanas, like what were they talking about? Like what did they experience? [33:39] How long ago was it? [33:41] Because I don't think we have a real understanding of how long ago it is. I mean, 17,000 B.C. is where or around that time. That's that many years ago is what they say. But again, who knows? Well, that makes sense if you take into account the 20,000 B.C. There's a guy named Randall Carlson who's been on my podcast a few times. And he's a really fascinating guy. And he's an expert in asteroid collisions with Earth. Wow. [34:11] that Earth has been slammed by comets and meteors. Is that how the dinosaurs were? So it was an asteroid? Yeah, they believe so. It was in the Yucatan, that one. That's the 65 billion years ago one. But there's other ones that are before that. Before that. Yeah, and then there's other ones that are after that. One of the more interesting ones is called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory. And that one's from about 11,800 years ago. And then again, they think somewhere in the 10,000 years that happened. [34:41] we pass by, I think it's every June and November. [34:44] forget what the time is, but [34:46] This is like also aligns with, do you know about the Tunguska event? Have you ever heard of that? No. In the early 1900s, um, [34:55] a meteor exploded in the sky above Russia and devastated like a million acres of land. And it was during the same time period. And they realized, like, there's this comet storm that we pass through. Like when you see meteor showers in the sky, it's because we're passing through these areas of our solar system that have these comets. This is the Tunguska event. So it just – and to this day, that area has no trees on it. Whoa. Yeah.

[35:25] flattened everything. And it didn't even impact the ground. It blew up in the sky above it. [35:32] And this was not even a big one. So how does nothing grow again? That's a good question. What is that asteroid made of that you can – like Earth has been able to come back from so much. Yeah, that's a good question. That's crazy. Maybe it's just not enough time. I don't know. I mean 117 years, maybe eventually. It means like a millennia. But it probably just blew the roots off of everything. It blew everything into smithereens. [36:02] I don't know what it was made out of, but some of them are made out of iron. Some of them are made out of nickel, like that big one that they saw, 3i atlas that passed through. That was a weird one because they were like, this is a nickel alloy. [36:16] That is as big as the size of Manhattan. And the only way we have it on Earth is industrial manufacturing of an alloy. But this thing in another planet somewhere else millions and millions and millions of years ago was formed under whatever weird circumstances and conditions. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild? [36:46] at the same time. So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know –

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[38:31] Their planet has. But you, I mean, I want to know your thoughts on this, but you definitely don't think we're [38:39] Like the only species existing in the universe, right? I don't think that's possible. It's human arrogance if we think we do. Yeah, that seems silly. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. There's just too many planets. It's a silly thing to think. And they found evidence of life on Mars. So they found evidence of some sort of bacterial life on Mars, like the traces of bacterial life. [39:00] And that's – [39:01] You know, right there. That's what I'm saying. Maybe it's just in within our Milky Way that we I mean, we haven't even been able to travel outside of that yet, you know, to get information. But it has there has to be other species that exist and other like. [39:17] intelligence and technology. Do you know the actor Terence Howard? [39:21] I mean, I know of him. Fascinating guy. Like a little kooky, but super smart. Like super smart. He's got some wild ideas. One of his ideas, I was like, wait, what? He thinks that life occurs when planets get a certain distance from their sun. And then over time, they get too far out and then life doesn't exist on those planets anymore. [39:46] But when they're in this Goldilocks zone like Earth is for a long period of time relative to our life, [39:53] life. [39:54] And then intelligent life emerges and figures out, hey, we got to get out of here eventually because this is not going to sustain us. And then it propagates the world or the universe rather. And he thinks that there's a thing that happens and he calls it peopling.

[40:13] He thinks that when a planet gets further enough from the sun – [40:19] that it eventually peoples. [40:21] Because it eventually reaches the right conditions where life emerges and evolution takes place and natural selection and random mutation. All these things converge and eventually you get an intelligent creature that knows how to manipulate its environment. Is there any proof of... [40:39] planets moving away from... [40:42] their son well they all do slowly very slowly like so even our well even our solar system we're all like slowly yeah and that also the sun is eventually going to burn out and explode and then we're fucked but that's a long time from now but there's enough shit yeah to be worried about nothing's permanent like all suns are not and we we're lucky we have a slow burn sun so we have a relatively [41:07] And it's, [41:09] there's a lot of weird [41:11] speculation that it's part of a binary solar system, too, that there might have been another version of our sun that burned out that's like way out there, like way out in space, like way past Pluto, way out there. I'd buy that. It's possible. I mean, there's a lot of wacky theories as to why there seems to be some large object that's outside of our vision. [41:32] That's way, way past Pluto. So there's a thing called the Kuiper Belt that's outside of Pluto. And that's part of what Pluto is, which is why they decided it's not really a planet anymore. But they think there's something else out there. They call it Planet X. It's a lot of weird speculation whether or not it's real. But they think there might be a large body, larger than Earth, like Jupiter-sized or something, like way out there.

[41:55] And it might be a sun. It might be a burnt out sun. Like a burnt out sun that was... Which is crazy. Insane. Well, Earth alone. The reason why we have the moon, supposedly, is because Earth was hit by another planet. There's Earth 1... So was the moon part of the Earth? The moon was like a big chunk of that collision that burst off and then became the moon. So there's Earth 1 and Earth 2. So does that happen with all the planets? Because all the planets that have their own moons are... [42:22] explosions maybe? That's a good question. I mean maybe some of them are enormous asteroids that got caught in the gravity and maybe it's volcanic activity. I don't know. I think a lot of it's asteroid impacts too. They knock off giant chunks and those chunks start orbiting that planet. So does that mean that all of those planets do have like a gravitational pull as well? Oh yeah. They all have a pull. Yeah. How strong would that gravitational pull be? [42:50] It depends on the mass of the planet. Like Jupiter, for example. Jupiter is what protects us. The reason why we don't get hit a lot is because Jupiter is so big. So Jupiter has so much mass and so much gravity that it's like our big brother that like – [43:05] protects us. Thanks Jupiter. For real. Yeah no that's great. And they actually observed an impact on Jupiter. I want to say it was in the 1980s [43:15] Where an enormous asteroid slammed into Jupiter and created a Earth-sized explosion. Which separated from? No, it just got absorbed. Jupiter just absorbed it. But they watched it in real time.

[43:29] And it was a way bigger explosion than they thought it was going to be. Like, yo. So then they have to, like, recalculate. Like, oh. [43:37] How big was that thing? And it made a literal impact as large as the earth. [43:42] Oh my God. Yeah. I have to see that video. Well, that's the, the solar system is just a fucking shooting gallery, which brings us back, which brings us back to this younger drives impact theory, which is one of the ways. [43:56] ancient, super advanced civilizations completely disappeared and there's no evidence of them. And there's a lot of physical evidence. When they do core samples of the Earth, they find there's a lot of iridium, which is very common in space but very rare on Earth, which indicates some sort of an impact. And then they also find micro diamonds, these nuclear diamonds. I think they call it trinitite. And they first observed this when they did the Trinity explosion. [44:26] on the ground, just a massive impact and explosion, heat and energy. Well, they find those littered all throughout the world in this same... [44:34] core sample timeline of like 11,800 years. So they think we were just bombarded. So a lot of these things like these temples in India, perhaps the pyramids, some structures that were stoned, probably just survived. No, for sure. There's so much that has survived, I think, from... [44:53] Like... [44:54] a timeline we can't even explain. I mean, in India, we see so much of it. So many of our texts, the Vedas are, you know, the oldest texts in the world. And to be able to like,

[45:05] read stories which now maybe we imagine our stories but are probably reality of a civilization gone by. Yes. It's just crazy to think about. I think more likely than not. Yeah. And I think more and more over time people are opening up to this possibility. [45:24] They recently just found written language that is 20... [45:29] 8,000 years old? [45:31] And they thought that human written language was created about 6,000 years ago. And they found evidence of language. I can read about this. So they're like, okay. [45:39] That's a giant difference. But how can we also know what happened in so many parts of the Earth when anyway the Earth was moving, right? Like the continents, what it looks like right now is not what it probably looked like. [45:52] 20,000 years ago. [45:54] it's been slowly moving. I feel like how are we supposed to know, like someone who writes a book, say in Mexico, like what happened then in Australia or what happened? What was the history in like India? You know what I mean? Right. Especially 15, you know, 1500s, 1600s. Yeah, years ago. When they were writing about stuff back then, they were just making shit up. So the shit that we read... Here it is. Human may have used these mysterious symbols to encode information tens of thousands of years before the first writing systems. Right. [46:24] 40,000-year-old artifacts. Wow. [46:29] - Okay. [46:30] Yeah. So it's some kind of way of documenting things. Of communicating.

[46:36] If these people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson are correct, there was some sort of a very, very advanced civilization pre-11,800 years ago. And this also coincides with the end of the Ice Age. It coincides with all of the ice caps over North America disappearing. Like North America was covered, like three-quarters of North America was covered in a mile-high sheet of ice. Went away like that. That's why the Great Lakes exist. Wow. [47:01] The Great Lakes are just that ice melted. Melted. And then whatever was left just ran through the country. And you can see the physical evidence of it when they show satellite images. It looks like enormous amounts of water just destroyed the landscape and completely carved it and changed it. [47:16] What do you think happened with, and I wonder if you have, because you have so much extensive knowledge with the amazing guests that you have on the show, how did we go from... [47:26] Neanderthal or early man [47:29] to this [47:31] technology-driven, like really smart, intelligent. Like what happened? [47:37] in history and the evolution of human beings that we were able to make that switch so quick? It's a real good question. There's a lot of... [47:46] I mean, I've heard theories, but I want to know yours. Yeah. [47:51] If I didn't... [47:52] worry at all about being ridiculous? [47:54] And I don't. [47:55] You don't. There was no need for that precursor. But if I didn't worry about that, I would say something helped us. That's what I think. Yeah. I don't think it makes sense that...

[48:08] That didn't take place. [48:11] Yeah, it's crazy to think about how that happened and how quickly it happened. [48:16] there's a lot of like weird stuff with us also all those other primates are still around except the early man ones you know that's what's weird [48:25] It's like Byron... [48:26] You know, how come chimpanzees are kind of the same? How come all these other primates are kind of the same? And yet we need clothes to stay warm out. Yeah, like a mammoth to an elephant. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, still similar. Yeah, it makes sense. How do we have, like, planes? And why do we like things? And how could we make cups? Yeah, why do we change our environment that way? Why do we have this... [48:51] insatiable desire to innovate. [48:54] insatiable. That's the number one thing that we do. Constantly changing. Constantly making new and better things. Never satisfied with anything new. [49:01] Everything has to be better. It doesn't matter how good your car is. What's the next year's model? Yeah. What matter what your phone does? I want better pictures, bitch. Like no matter what, it's always like we want something to be better all the time. And it's like one up what we had. But I think that I think it's built into us. And I think that is a part of this process of becoming a human being. And I think it's leading us to develop AI. That's what I really think. [49:31] intervened. [49:33] Now, there's a lot of people that think, the rational people think that it was the invention of fire and the cooking of food that gave us better access to nutrition and protein and then innovating in order to hunt allowed the brain. But it was such an accelerated period of time. It went like so quickly. The human brain size doubled over a period of two million years, which is the greatest mystery in the entire fossil record. Yeah. Like what made that happen? We don't know.

[49:59] But – [50:01] In religious texts, ancient religious texts, there's many stories of human beings breeding with something from somewhere else. That's a part of the – Alien intervention. Yes. Yes. Right. Without trying to sound ridiculous. Hyper-intelligent life form. But if you think about it – I was watching a show about that and I was like, that makes sense. What was the show you were watching? Do you remember? Ancient alien. [50:29] That show's the best. [50:31] It's so silly. It's amazing. But I was like two in the morning. I'm like, oh. My friend Action Bronson, he used to do a show. He doesn't do that show anymore, does he? [50:40] They would get super baked and watch Ancient Aliens. They'd be like, bro. Ancient Aliens is rad. I love that show at 2 in the morning. Oh, it's fun. It's very fun. I think they're right about some of those things. [50:55] I think there's something to it. I mean that is one of the oldest biblical texts that wasn't included in the canon that is the Bible is the Book of Enoch. And I had Anna Paulina Luna on the podcast and she brought that up and I was like – she was like, you really should read that. So I read it and you start reading it and you're like, wait, what the hell are they talking about? [51:25] a race of giants that destroyed the earth. [51:28] What are you talking about? Like, what is this? This is in the Bible, and it would have been in the Bible, but not for a few rabbis that decided this doesn't jive with the Torah. And so they say, we got to get that out of there. And that's why it's not taught along with the book of Ezekiel and all these other things that are in the Old Testament. Wow. Verses like in Hindu mythology also, you know, we read about a time where God, human and

[51:58] elms and [51:59] you know, life and stories and, you know, so it's like when you think about stories like that, stories, beliefs, you know, from around the world that have similar sort of... [52:13] Callan [52:14] It's almost like... [52:15] trying to connect the dots of what must have happened at that time [52:19] you know, all around the world. It's probably the same thing. [52:23] You know, some sort of incredible technology. Yeah. Yeah. [52:27] and [52:28] Some and a lot of them have these stories of something of. [52:34] some kind of higher nature, higher power, higher technology intervening in the lives of human beings. [52:42] and even manipulating people. [52:44] the process. Yeah, but isn't that what I think was referred to as the gods? Yes. Like if you think about the Roman, you know, or Egyptian, like gods, I don't want to speak about culture, but I can't even say about ours, but that... [53:00] power that we read about, you know, that like if you if you go into it, I'm a big believer. So [53:08] I think that, you know, was that [53:11] Like a real experience that happened to a human being at that time? A real experience with someone that had a limited vocabulary, a limited amount of knowledge and a limited ability to write things down. [53:22] And so they probably told these stories from whatever words they could use to describe what this was. Like if you were living 30 –

[53:31] thousand years ago, 40,000 years ago, and a UFO landed, a giant metallic disc landed, and little tiny creatures came out and talked to you telepathically. You don't have a written language. You don't, your culture is hunter-gatherers. Like, how do you tell that story? How do you tell that story? And what are the people that you told that story to going to tell their children and their grandchildren for many, many, many, many generations before anybody figures out how to write things down? [53:58] Totally. But another perspective on this, which people have is, is that our pragmatic... [54:06] practical 2026 human [54:09] trying to explain something that was magical and did exist at a time that we, we, we don't have an explanation for. Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. Like, [54:19] And there's the other side of that with people that, you know, you hear so many stories of [54:24] of visitations from the gods back then, you know, to humans and the divinity of, at least in my country, for sure, of different avatars of gods coming down to earth to save humankind and to help in human salvation and to help them against evil. So when you hear of those stories, like the practical side of me, like are those human stories and who is that? [54:50] that power that they were seeing at that time. And then there's a side of you which is like, [54:55] There's so much we can't explain. [54:57] and sometimes have to like [55:00] Leave it to

[55:02] Inexplicable magic of the universe. Like, I'm someone who loves science, but I also am a believer of... [55:10] That just can't explain everything. Well, even science itself, like hardcore materialist science. Totally. If you're trying to explain the Big Bang, good fucking luck. Good fucking luck making sense out of something smaller than the head of a pin that became everything that's in the universe. [55:28] Okay. Explain that to me. Help me out. [55:33] Totally. I mean, it's all theoretical and speculative and no one really knows. And then there's this concept of what took place before the Big Bang. And then there's Sir Roger Penrose's version of it, which has been many versions of the Big Bang expansion, then contraction, and that it's not the beginning, that it's part of an endless cycle. [55:58] That was not kind of the beginning. There's been many beginnings and many ends that we have no idea of. That makes more sense to me. It makes more sense because I think the problem with a beginning – [56:09] We're like, well, what was here originally? We always want to think of things in terms of our own biological limitations. We have a birth and we have a death. So we think that the universe probably had a birth. Everything has a limitation. But why? It's there. Like time. What is time's limitation? It's existed from who knows when. It's constant. It's never not been here. Yeah. So the idea that there was nothing before the universe, well, that doesn't even make sense.

[56:39] I'm going to go to the Caribbean islands for a couple of days to get an understanding of the history of the islands. And the Caribbean is so interesting, especially Cayman, because it's in the middle of these trading routes between Honduras, Cuba, Mexico. So ships, when trading started, is when... [56:56] the Cayman was discovered. [56:58] The islands were discovered. So when I went down there, I went to the museum, and they said, yeah, it was like the 1700s or 1800s when the first settlers came. And, you know, it started with family or like people trying to run away or pirates or, you know, just people making pit stops before going to another country. And they said that that was the first time that there was any history of the island. [57:28] And now, I mean, Cayman Islands, Cayman Islands. Right. [57:32] But if you think about it, there's so many... [57:35] places in the world where [57:38] people and humans have existed way before we even have an understanding of or are willing to acknowledge. You know, in many cultures it's different. Yeah. But, um, well, we just lost the history of it. That's possible too. That's what my argument was. I was like, you know, like we have to have lost the history of what happened prior. There's an entire culture from South America that we don't know who they were, the Olmecs. [58:03] We have some giant carved heads, and we're like, oh, who did that? Where did that come from? They think it's like thousands and thousands of years old. They look African. It's very strange. Have you seen all my kids? Oh, yeah.

[58:18] You look like this. That's an Olmec head. [58:21] Like, how nuts is that? Like, that's a replica of these enormous heads that are in, I think, is it Peru? [58:29] Luke Caverns, who's been on the podcast, he's a really fascinating guy who does a lot of research down there. [58:37] He's been there and documented, and he's like, they don't know who these people were. They don't know what their language was. They don't even know what they looked like except for these images, and they don't even know if these images are supposed to be of them. [58:49] like these statues. [58:50] See if you can find some of these heads so you can see, like, the... [58:55] the scale of them. So crazy. So they left these enormous stone heads. They attributed to this one civilization that they call the Olmecs. They just made a name up, but they don't know who the hell these people were. And look at their faces. [59:09] Like, that's crazy. Yeah. [59:11] That's huge. Yeah. [59:13] And do you know how old these might be? They don't really know, but I think... How many thousands of years old do they think they are, Jamie? Jamie. [59:21] Mm-hmm. [59:24] Crazy stuff. [59:25] Yeah. [59:26] So at least 900 BC. But, you know, what does that mean? Yeah. That's a guess. [59:33] That's a guess. But like a long time ago. A long time ago. Well, even the Aztecs. Do you know the Aztecs didn't build those temples? [59:42] They found them. [59:43] The Aztecs found that? They found them. The Aztec temples? They found them from an unknown previous civilization. Oh, my God. Yeah. They call those temples the place where the gods were born.

[59:54] Yeah. [59:55] That's what they call them. And they just kind of like cleaned it up. [59:59] Which kind of makes sense because you think of how barbaric the Aztecs were. They did some horrific shit. We were talking about one of the temples. I think it was Tenochtitlan. When they consecrated it, they killed – [1:00:12] Between 20,000 and 80,000 people, they sacrificed them in a period of four days. [1:00:19] And so this is like right when the Spanish were first visiting Mexico thinking about taking over and this guy Diaz, this Spanish chronicler said it was the fucking craziest thing. They killed 80,000 people he said over a period of four days. Just cut their hearts out and threw their bodies down the stairs. [1:00:36] Like nuts. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast. There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck. TurboTax now has in-person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech enabled stores and meet face-to-face with a TurboTax full service expert who will get your best outcome. [1:01:04] Your expert works to get you every dollar you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. [1:01:11] Head to TurboTax.com to find a store near you. [1:01:15] So these are the people that were... Yeah, you think about how countries were... Conquests happen and we're living in the history of so many people's blood and sacrifices. And violence. And so much violence. An unfathomable amount of violence. How are humans so capable of that kind of violence? Having done a really violent movie right now? Because chimps.

[1:01:43] Because we're mostly chimp. And I think if you pay attention to chimps... Chimp behavior, yeah. Have you ever seen Chimp Nation on Netflix? No, I haven't. It's fantastic. It's just... [1:01:54] It's spectacular because it is a very rare situation where this one particular group of chimpanzees, they were embedded with these – [1:02:03] scientists for 20 years. So the scientists had very specific rules. Don't get within 20 yards of them. Don't make eye contact with them. Don't have any food with you. Okay. And don't don't interfere. And they're, they're totally accustomed to having people around them. So they behave totally naturally. Yeah. And so they wage war. They have all these like crazy social dynamics. They behave like they would in the wild because they're used to these humans. Exactly. And when you watch it, you're like, Oh my God, they are a lot like us. [1:02:30] they're a lot like us, just like very primitive, no language, but, [1:02:36] ultra violent. Chimps are ultra violent. I mean, one of their favorite foods this guy was telling me was monkeys. They just love eating monkeys. He goes, we saw them kill so many monkeys, we couldn't even document it. He goes, because if it would just be like, every day was like a monkey hunt, they would tear these monkeys apart and eat them alive. [1:02:54] It's horrific. That's our ancestors. So what we are is a combination. Well, that explains it. Yeah, that explains it. We're a combination of some higher intelligence that interbred with a savage primate that's curious and created this weird hybrid, this weird thing. That's what ancient aliens told me. Yeah. And I believe it. I think they're right. They're right about that. Have you ever seen Chariots of the Gods? No. That's the original one.

[1:03:24] Danikin that was in like the 1970s it was a movie like a feature movie I mean I remember the movie but I don't remember yeah I had lunch with him once got a chance to question him about stuff he's a like a true believer yeah like a true believer what are his beliefs well he believes that everything is from aliens that aliens came down and aliens taught people how to do things and aliens built all these things and and [1:03:49] I'm more in line of they intervened and created – [1:03:54] what we think of now as humans, and then humans figured out a different path of technology than we're on today, that we are on the path of internal combustion engines, electronics, electricity, and they were probably on some different path of technology, but as far down the path, if not more. And I think they probably had figured out some things that we have yet to figure out, including like the trans... [1:04:22] The transferring and the moving and shipping of enormous stone blocks without heavy machinery. [1:04:30] We don't know what they were doing. Yeah. I don't know. How did they cut them? Like, what are they – if those structures that Filippo Biondi describes – if that's real, like, what was the pyramid then? Was it a machine? Yeah. How did they do – like, first they created the structure. Like, imagine the foundation and the design that went into it. A half a mile deep into the earth. Like, what is that? What are you doing?

[1:05:00] I just know that we can't explain that quick evolution of humans from Neanderthal to... We can't. And highly intelligent. Yes, we can't. Yeah. I mean, there's just a lot of people saying, well, we haven't filled in the gaps yet. Yeah. We don't really know. But the acceleration of the evolution is so spectacular. Vegans are hilarious. They attribute it to people eating tubers. I had a conversation with a guy. He's like, we're thinking it's probably tubers. Like, roots? You mean like bears eat? Shut the fuck up. [1:05:30] that is the dumbest explanation that didn't even make any sense i'm vegan are you really no i'm just congratulations no there's no way i just no i just had barbecue you would already fall asleep for breakfast i had brisket i was like i'm here in austin for two hours yeah you have to have barbecue if you come here yeah um i just think that whatever happened we don't know and um [1:05:54] I would not rule out intervention. [1:05:57] And I wouldn't think that an intelligent species from somewhere else, if they did find these very curious primates that may already be working with sticks and rocks and stuff like that, that they wouldn't intervene because we do it. We're doing it right now. We're doing it right now with animals. It's human nature to do it. If we went to a planet somewhere and we found some fucking frogs or some weird animals but nothing big, we might drop a deer off in there and see what happens. We might bring some birds in. [1:06:27] would we would intervene they're doing genetic manipulation of animals right now to bring back extinct life

[1:06:32] That's how they brought back the direwolf. [1:06:36] This company called Colossal, Colossal Biowars. I saw it. I touched it. I went to – yes. I went to the place where they're holding these wolves and I got to – me and my daughter got to cuddle with a baby dire wolf. They had two semi-adults at the time. I think they were like eight or nine months old. And they've been extinct since when? [1:06:59] 10,000 years? [1:07:00] Stop it. Yeah. Somewhere in the range of that. I mean, yeah. When did dire wolves go extinct? I think they were part of the megafauna that went extinct during the impact because 65% of all megafauna on Earth and particularly in North America went extinct around the same time. Woolly mammoths. Do we know why? [1:07:22] Around the same time? There's a lot of hypotheses. Like, was there something that happened then? The rational people... [1:07:27] Not me, but the rational people think it was the berserker theory, which means that human beings killed so many mammoths that we wiped them out to extinction. But this is with atlatls. Like it doesn't make total sense. It's like, how did you get – there's not even that many people. How did you do that? And then there's also stuff like the American lion, which was bigger than the African lion. How do we kill that off with a fucking stick? [1:07:50] Like, shut the fuck up. Something had to have happened. Well, they found mass grave sites of mammoths where there's like hundreds of them dead all in one place that seem to have died at the same time. Not only that, some of them have broken legs. It seems to impact some. It seems to have been like some. Yeah. Like.

[1:08:09] asteroid or something that created that kind of impact immediately. But 65% of all North American megafauna died at the same time. [1:08:18] That's so crazy. Yeah, within the time period. And they think that the younger dry ice impact theory people think like this is not a coincidence that this coincides with the end of the ice age and also coincides with where the core samples. Too many coincidences. Yeah. And also the coincides with the fact that these animals were all here at one point in time. They all got wiped out except a very few. [1:08:43] There's only a few left. Like there's the pronghorn antelope, which is a really weird one. It's this prehistoric antelope that lives in North America, and it's different than every other animal here because it's evolved to get away from cheetahs. Because we used to have cheetahs in North America. So it can run like 55 miles in fucking books. I've seen them in real life. They're really weird looking. They look prehistoric. But can run. They fly. That's what it looks like. See if you can get a look at its face. [1:09:13] They're so strange. Like their eyeballs are on the sides of their heads because something was coming at them. [1:09:18] like, you know, 55 miles an hour at full clip. And so they're really, really alert. And they have incredible vision. [1:09:27] Wow. And that's a leftover animal. That's a leftover animal from a time where they were being preyed upon by something that doesn't exist anymore. [1:09:35] and that something was wiped out along with the American Lion.

[1:09:39] A bigger lion than the African lion. [1:09:43] lived right here. Huge. Yeah, huge. I was filming in Africa recently in Kenya and we, for this Indian movie I'm doing called Varanasi. And... [1:09:54] We shot with wildebeests and like, as in like in the middle of them, I was me and my co-actor Mahesh were in the middle of these wildebeests that were all around us while they were migrating. [1:10:06] It's like the coolest thing I've ever seen. But when you see their faces and for how many years... [1:10:12] versions of them have existed you know you feel the gravity when you um see these animals in the wild yeah it's crazy it's so much different than a zoo right oh completely because you're like oh they've always been here like this yeah this is their home this is what they do we're in it you you feel a sense of like stay in your jeep well i think we're numb to it because we watch it on film and so that we get sort of desensitized and normalized to this idea of wildlife oh there's [1:10:42] How cool. But when you're there and you see a line, you see a will to be like, this is fucking crazy. [1:10:48] This is all day long, every day, these life forms competing to try to exist and stay alive. That's it. Weird balance where all of them still exist. Yeah. They can. There'll be wildebeest right there and there'll be a lion right here who's eaten. [1:11:02] So they're hanging out together. The wildebeest knows that he's eaten. He's not coming after us. And they exist. But at the same time, during hunting season, you see the hunt happen. And I saw a hunt happen. And that's crazy that that's their life. Yeah. With their face. They kill things with their face. Like literally crazy. There's a really extraordinary island in Africa where the river changed courses and it left this river.

[1:11:30] this one pack of lions on this one island that only has water buffalo on it. [1:11:38] And so these lions became enormous. [1:11:40] And the female lions are as big as male lions everywhere else. And the male lions are way bigger than they are anywhere else. I think there's the documentaries. I think it's called Relentless Enemies. But it's because they look like these jacked bodybuilder lions. Those water buffaloes are huge. And I had one staring at me like we were in Kenya. I'm like the video villages that they were filming. And it's far away. But it just turned his head and just looked at me and then just kept looking at me. [1:12:10] out of its view. [1:12:11] Because he just kept staring. I was like, it's coming at me. They will come at you. Yeah, for sure. They kill people. The rangers told us. They were like, I think he's engaged with you. Maybe get out of here. Get into your car. [1:12:25] Yeah, there's that poor lady. She was a video editor on the Game of Thrones. And she went to do a safari there. One of the lions pulled her out of her car. [1:12:35] Out of her car? Yeah, she rolled the window down. [1:12:38] Or someone rolled the window down and a female lion just snatched her out of the car and killed her. [1:12:44] Oh, my God. Yeah. You have to listen to your rangers. [1:12:48] Yeah. When you're in these situations. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, she wanted a better picture or something. Yeah, that's the shit that gets people into trouble. Oh, yeah. Like there was this, one of our rangers was telling us a story that they have, we were in Masai Mara and they were like, they have open jeeps and, you know, you have food that they keep really hidden so that the animals can't smell it under your seats and stuff. And he was telling a story about this influencer. He's driving and, you know, there's a pack of lions.

[1:13:18] So he's sleeping and this influencer who puts his hand outside to try and touch the lion's head. [1:13:25] and got it on video and survived to tell the story. And then he was banned and the ranger was like fired from his job and all of that happened. But for the image, can you imagine? What a fucking idiot. All for the gram. [1:13:40] My gosh, that was crazy. [1:13:42] This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you're looking to hire, you consider someone's skills, experience, availability. But even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter connects you with qualified candidates instantly. [1:14:12] Their latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list so you can make sure you're speaking with the right people at the start. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. [1:14:42] We'll be right back.

[1:14:56] inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment. ShipStation compares rates across all major global carriers, including USPS, UPS, and FedEx, plus your own discounted rates if you have them to find you the best shipping option on every order with discounts up to 90% off. There's a [1:15:26] Trust ShipStation. Try ShipStation free for 60 days with full access to all features, no credit card needed. Go to ShipStation.com and use the code JRE for 60 days free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's ShipStation.com, code JRE. [1:15:52] I mean, I don't want anything bad to happen to anybody, but... [1:15:55] When someone does something like that and does get killed – [1:15:58] It's probably better. [1:16:01] Educationally for the human race. But is it though? Are we really learning from other people and their examples? Some people aren't learning shit. Nobody's learning shit. We're just trying to put the best versions of ourselves on the ground. Like that's what's happening right now. Whether it's true or not. [1:16:18] Yeah. [1:16:20] But are we learning? Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I think we are also so desensitized to there's so much information that comes your way and misinformation now. We're being able to discern what's real and what's not now. That's hard as well. Oh, it's harder than it's ever been. Totally. And then if you do watch something and you're like, I'm going to implement in my life, we do it for a very short duration. Very few of us follow through with that, right? Like you're watching a reel or somebody says something and you're like, that's really cool.

[1:16:49] are we [1:16:50] going to pull on that thread and follow through and do something about it or... [1:16:55] Learn from it, I don't know. [1:16:56] I feel like we've lost a lot of that... [1:17:01] Space. [1:17:03] where we had the time or the desire to want to... [1:17:07] you know, fulfill ourselves versus just that with so much coming at you. Well, I think collectively as a society, I think we learn and then we forget and then we have to relearn again. Yeah. You know, that's certainly... But the attention span now where, you know, I remember when I was growing up, like... [1:17:25] Just having... [1:17:27] the languidity of time, right, in a very different way. And this is like, say, 30 years ago, 30, 35 years ago of... [1:17:37] You know, reading a book, music playing... [1:17:40] Hanging out with your parents or your friends. [1:17:44] without being rushed, without being rushed, [1:17:46] just rushed. You know, I don't remember feeling as rushed as I do now in the last 20 years. When I was growing up, like there was time for stuff. [1:17:57] Yeah [1:17:58] Well, certainly the internet has... [1:18:00] accelerated that [1:18:03] And certainly people's attention spans are at least pulled in the direction of short attention span content. [1:18:10] But at the same time, [1:18:11] podcasts have emerged, which is interesting. It's so interesting. Like, I was talking about this to a friend of mine, like, people who have no time or interest in wanting to commit to, like, say, a movie or some will watch or listen to, like, a podcast for... Yeah.

[1:18:27] two or three hours. And for someone like me, who, you know, [1:18:30] like [1:18:31] I've been an actor for most of my life. My interface with people would be, you know, an interview, say, for example. [1:18:39] people who knew me or audiences that wanted to know about me would be an interview where, you know, the highlights are really what you read, the clickbait lines are really what you read, and you form a relationship with whoever this public person is based on those few lines versus this format, where you're just... [1:18:58] Chatting for a few hours and you have the ability to really be yourself and be seen as yourself, which is why I think people really love podcasts Well, I think it's much more illuminating in terms of if you want to like find out who a person really is Yeah, because you can't really hide for three hours. Like that's who you are and I think for most people that's scary and [1:19:21] Right. And so what they like about those fake shows, like good morning, America, or whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like you're sitting down, you know, the guy's got a piece of paper. So he's got a few questions he's going to ask you and they're all going to be like very surface, very jovial. What's it like to be married? You know, what's it like to do this? What's it like to do that? So you had a baby. Congratulations, that kind of shit. And then you're out of there. It's 10 minutes and you're like, Oh, that went well. And then [1:19:45] Nobody knows anything about you. It's true that you're just basically known by the top four questions that everybody asks you. So it's like the same four questions that everybody asks. Right. And what was it like to work with this person? What was she like in person? What was he like? For me, mostly, it's like a lot about my family. It's like that my identity starts there and then everything else comes after. Well, you're fascinating in that you...

[1:20:10] you've done movies in two different cultures. So I wanted to ask you about that. What is the Bollywood... [1:20:17] scene like, because I wasn't even aware of it until like 20 years ago. I didn't know that Bollywood is like this enormous... [1:20:24] Like the amount of films that are produced in India is kind of crazy. Yeah. Yeah. [1:20:29] It's a big business. Huge. Huge. Hundred and something years of Indian cinema just recently. [1:20:35] So a very, very old industry. We started with silent movies and have worked our way now to and that's not just Bollywood. I'll break that down in a second, because India is so diverse and we have so many different languages. Again, excuse me, I didn't know the exact number, but we have local industries that make movies in those languages. So Bollywood is diverse. [1:21:00] Bombay. It comes from Bombay. I think that's why it was coined that name from Hollywood. But the Bombay movie industry, again, it was not us that did that. It was the name that was given to us. I don't know by who. But Bollywood is the Hindi language industry, which exists in Mumbai, which is like L.A. It's huge. It's, you know, we make thousands and thousands of movies. But then [1:21:30] robust [1:21:31] industries that are localized within every state that also exists. So cumulatively, we make thousands and thousands of movies a year, but it's catered to very, very different audiences within the diversity of India.

[1:21:46] And... [1:21:47] How many people have come from India, like you, and become stars in Western movies? I think there have been a few before me, you know, that have done work. The first one I heard of. So no one's made it to me yet. Well, thank you. Yes, I think that it's been few and far in between. I think America is a really hard country to break into, to be relevant in. It's a... [1:22:12] And also, I think Hollywood controls a large part of the global entertainment business. So as an actor from anywhere in the world, if you want to break into the English language, global entertainment, Hollywood system, it's not easy to do that. [1:22:32] You know, culturally it's different, language is different, jokes are different. So, you know, [1:22:38] That's a tough transition, but it's also like, for me, I... [1:22:42] I went to high school. Oh, by the way, you went to Newton and I went to Newton too. I went to Newton North, you went to Newton South. How crazy is that? That's crazy. I was in high school in the States. It wasn't alien to me. It's not like I was in India and I was like, I want to go to America and start working there. [1:23:04] I really wanted to [1:23:06] see what it would be like if I came down here. Would there be an opportunity for someone like me to, you know, be able to create an impact?

[1:23:16] Many years later, I feel like I'm on my way there. But there have been so many actors whose shoulders I've stood on. So Indian... [1:23:24] like Indian casting. [1:23:26] in English language entertainment, whether it was Hollywood or, you know, British entertainment, wherever, was usually... [1:23:33] by us seen as you know a diversity check so it was mostly a stereotypical actor or a stereotypical character with an actor having to speak in the accent or having to like do the work it's be a little bit more indian what does that even mean did someone tell you that i was told in an audition i think we needed the character to be a little bit more indian [1:23:56] And I just didn't even understand why. There's so many versions of that. But I think what... [1:24:02] Like this person meant was have a little bit more of the accent. Yeah, be the character. Yeah, be the character, which was really tough to break out of. So, you know, at a time when it was only that work that existed in Hollywood, like those are the actors whose shoulders I stand on. Like those were the ones that went in and did that work because that was all that was available. And, you know, tried to break through. Yeah. [1:24:25] Especially from like India, for example, Aishwarya Rai, Amitabh Bachchan, Irfan Khan, there have been actors that have come in, done work and, you know, left an amazing mark. But I moved here. I live here now. [1:24:40] Um, and you know, I'm, I'm consistently working here. I think that also may have been a part of why you've heard of me. Yes, I'm sure. Well, I've seen you interviewed too, which is why I thought you were interesting. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, but I think you're very interesting. I think your, um, knowledge of the world is fascinating to me. Well, um, it's all accidental. Cool. How cool is that? Yeah. Yeah.

[1:25:07] It's cool. That's amazing. I started this thing out with my friend Brian and a laptop. [1:25:12] We were just talking shit. We just thought it'd be fun to like do like a little internet thing. Wow, how inspiring. And that was 16 years ago. You're someone who's pivoted your career so many times too though. Sort of, but it's all the same thing in that I've only just done things I'm interested in. [1:25:31] Other than Fear Factor. That was just a job. You know, I also hosted Fear Factor. Did you? No. Shut up. For one year. Really? I did. Where? In Brazil. In India. Shut the fuck up. That's crazy. Fear Factor, India. And we shot it in Brazil, in Rio. Wow. That's nuts. We have such random things in common. That is crazy. That's a crazy thing in common. I need to see that. Let me see that. Find a clip. This is hilarious. What language did you do it in? Hindi. Wow. Fear Factor, India. And it was in Rio. [1:26:01] We shot it in Rio We had a big budget that year So we were all flown out So it's Fear Factor India I wonder how many versions of Fear Factor there were I mean they're all over the world [1:26:13] Really? Yeah. Fear Factor used to exist all over. I don't know anymore, but back in the day. Once I stopped doing it, I stopped paying attention. I was like, I'm out. Me too. So I knew Ludacris took it over at one point in time, and now Johnny Knoxville's doing it. That's all I knew. I had no idea that there was a bunch of different language versions of it. All over the world. Yeah, yeah. [1:26:31] You know, it originally came from a Holland show called Now or Neverland. [1:26:35] It's a crazy show. Yeah.

[1:26:37] It was way more simple. And then when it got brought to America, they decided to call it Fear Factor. The whole eating thing, we didn't take that back to India. Really? Yeah, we didn't do the eating. Because you never know people are vegetarian. In India, it's a big part of our culture where a lot of people religiously are vegetarian or not. I think maybe that's the reason. But there was not a lot of like eat the worms and stuff, which I was very grateful for. [1:27:07] and falling off the cliff. And I remember there was this one which was crazy. This 16 wheeler which was driving it 60 miles an hour and everyone had to take their vehicle underneath it. Oh yeah. Underneath it and come out. Yikes. It was insane. That's crazy. I didn't have to do it which was great. I was just hosting. [1:27:27] Yeah, we did a lot of stuff where I was like, we barely got through that without killing somebody. Yeah, and the death waivers. Yeah. Everyone had to sign a death waiver. Oh, yeah. [1:27:37] I was like... [1:27:38] Why would you do a show where you have signed a death waiver? Yeah, and you can only win like $50,000. And you might not win. You're probably not going to win. There's a bunch of other people on the show. And you could very easily get hurt. Yeah. Yeah, but people want to be famous. [1:27:52] They want to be on TV. They're like, I want to be on TV. Yeah. Once it became... [1:27:56] popular and successful it was really easy to get people to do it too everybody wanted to sign up [1:28:01] But, I mean, there are, like, protective measures, obviously. But it's... A little. We made them ride bulls. We did, too. We put people on bulls. Yeah.

[1:28:12] I was, and there were a few that were like, no, I'm not doing this. I'm out. I told people not to do it. When I was talking to them off camera, I said, don't do it. I wouldn't do it. Don't do it. I would never do it. No way. No way. [1:28:24] But people did it. Fuck that. Look at you. [1:28:28] What year was this? [1:28:30] Please, I can't even remember. Look at Jim. It looks like a Fear Factor scene. It is. I was on a helicopter. So do you know what year this was? Oh, I can't. Did it say that? It just didn't say. I don't know. I could check. Wow. Rio. I've been to that. I stood outside the helicopter as well. Rio's amazing. Rio's amazing. [1:28:48] Wow, that's crazy. [1:28:52] That is so funny. It's just like Fear Factor. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's totally Fear Factor. [1:29:00] So what did you guys do for the second stunt if you didn't do a gross thing? You just did a second scary thing? We did like scary things mostly. Oh, wow. That's probably better. [1:29:08] Honestly, I mean, there were gross things, too. Like there's Brazilian, you know, red eyed deviled rats that were put all over you with tongue and eyeballs and stuff. But you didn't have to consume it. Right. It was on you. Yeah. You didn't have to eat it. A lot of the consuming it was psychological. [1:29:27] you get really accustomed to it and then it's like nothing [1:29:31] I mean, listen, that people... [1:29:34] have eaten crazy things through history, right? To stay alive. To stay alive. Yeah. And like, if we take our mind out of... [1:29:42] Like, oh my gosh, this is gross.

[1:29:44] then it's not. Well, the thing is, a lot of what we were serving as gross was some people's food, like balut, like my friends from Filipino friends. They're like, bro, I eat that all the time. Like, that's crazy. That would have been no problem. This is a current I heard more updated. What? Oh, my God. I'm telling you lions and your what if that thing pops open? [1:30:06] And you've got to roll that thing around with lions there? That's great. Oh, the lions are duking it out with each other? Fuck that. [1:30:13] That's crazy. Yeah, like I went to, I recently was on Fallon and there was some bluffing game that we were doing because the movie's called A Bluff. And, you know, I said to Jimmy, I was like, I eat worms. And he was like, no way, no way you don't eat worms. But these worms are a delicacy in Zimbabwe. And I was introduced to them. Yeah. [1:30:37] Thank you. [1:30:38] I don't know exactly the history, but I was told during segregation, you know, people, black people were put in... [1:30:47] areas where that weren't very fertile you couldn't really grow your crops and you know your animals and they were so this was a way of like protein and they're very high these are these fat caterpillars high in protein and they're made in a curry and when you actually eat them it's like chicken. [1:31:03] Mmm. [1:31:04] I'm telling you, it's like it was psychological. [1:31:06] you [1:31:07] Well, you know, cicadas, those things that come out. People eat them here all the time. They bake them. Fried, baked. Yeah. And apparently they're delicious. Yeah.

[1:31:16] I haven't had one of those. I haven't either. I actually did when I was in the interplay. Oh, wow. That's what it looks like? Yeah. That's crazy. But look at like... [1:31:24] They're made into a curry. I ate a tomato hornworm on Fear Factor. I had a bunch of things when I was on the show. I was like, there's nothing going into my mouth on Fear Factor. I ate a sheep's eyeball in the first episode. [1:31:39] Because the first episode, I felt bad that the people... [1:31:42] were on the show. [1:31:43] I'm like, I'm like, I'll eat it too. All right. And they didn't show me eating it, but I'm like, I'm going to eat it. Cause you guys have to eat it. And then I ate a roach to try to convince a lady that she could eat a roach. [1:31:54] I ate worms. I ate an Iraqi cave spider. [1:31:59] I ate... What was the spider like? Just chewy. But was it... The taste is not bad. Was it alive when you ate it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. [1:32:07] For the first couple seconds. [1:32:11] Yeah. Um... [1:32:13] Yeah, all the things that I ate were a lot other than the eyeball. [1:32:16] Yeah. The roach was alive. All those things were alive. [1:32:21] Yeah. I put a cricket and a live cricket in my mouth. That's the Iraqi cave spider. How do you put that in your mouth? Like this. Look at those sides. You make sure you don't get those pinchers because those... Oh! Yeah. [1:32:32] Yeah. I hate it. Yep. [1:32:35] wasn't that bad i'm telling you it's like you've got to get the body in and not the pinchers yeah i grab the pinchers to hold on to the body yeah that's the trick not not shut the rest of it like just that yeah people freaking out

[1:32:49] But I'm telling you, it's all psychological. It for sure is. Yeah, that was in Vegas. [1:32:54] Everybody was playing roulette. [1:32:56] Yeah. [1:32:58] No. [1:33:00] But it's not that bad. It's just in your head. It is psychological. The actual flavor of it is, it's not gross. Yeah, it's not. [1:33:07] The tomato hornworm was kind of nasty. I mean, if you're someone who's not vegetarian, it's like you just have to get the... [1:33:15] Yeah. It's the psychology of it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We made people eat an entire ostrich egg. That was disgusting because the volume. Like you're eating an egg that's that big. Yeah. Is it like really fatty? Like fatty? It's raw. You're eating it raw. They just cut the top off of the egg and you have to drink it. You have to drink this gigantic white and yolk. [1:33:38] I'm already with it. My brisket's coming. [1:33:43] The barbecue. [1:33:45] But it's so oddly compelling. It's oddly compelling watching people eat disgusting things and struggling. I have to say I did enjoy the show. That lady had to drink that whole egg. Oh, my God. Did she puke? I can't. You got to hold it down, and then you can puke after you're done. [1:34:02] But if you puke in the middle of it, you just fall back. Yes, they get rid of you. That's a wrap. [1:34:06] If you puke in the middle of it. [1:34:08] I would not be able to do the American potion. Yeah, it was gross. I'm okay with not eating that stuff. It was gross, but it also made me totally desensitized to throw up. [1:34:17] That's a good talent to have. Oh, yeah. You could throw up right in front of me. Especially as a dad. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I think being a dad will get you – Yeah, desensitize you to everything. Smells and all kinds of things like that. But one time – it's so – I'm completely distilled to this day, completely desensitized to vomit. So one time my wife was – she came home from the gym and she was on her way home from the gym. She stopped and got wheatgrass juice and it just –

[1:34:42] I didn't agree with her and she threw up in her car and she was crying. She was like, I threw up. It's in my center console. How am I going to clean? I go, I'll clean it. I'm just so used to throw up. It was like no big deal. I just went out there with a bunch of towels. Yeah. Like it doesn't – but when I was young, like in high school, I remember if someone threw up in the hallway, I would be like – like I couldn't help myself. I'd start gagging. [1:35:12] and you probably ate that too. - Which means you, yeah. - Get it out of you right away. [1:35:15] And so that's why you started throwing out, but I've killed that. [1:35:18] I have just trauma from... [1:35:21] you know, [1:35:22] tequila well i watch so many people throw up and throw up me too man i'm not going in there with a dish like no wow well from your show for sure you you did it for so long you get very desensitized for sure but you get i'm desensitized to injuries too like um because of ufc yeah like people that get cut and people that get beat up it's like normal to me i'm so accustomed to seeing that [1:35:52] Thank you. [1:35:52] I mean, I kind of feel like that about stunts in movies. Like, you know, nobody's supposed to get hurt. It's a movie. You're not. Nobody's supposed to get hurt. But like. [1:36:04] The little cuts and bruises and the end of day. We're doing this for 10 to 11 hours, multiple takes all day. And in between shots, you're rehearsing it. So I have so many scars on my body from my filmographies on my body. Do you look forward to those things? You look down? Yeah, I like the good story. I feel like it's like a medal. I have a good story. As long as you're minor. Yes, minor. Nothing crazy. Always. You aim for it to be minor. Yeah. That's the ambition.

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[1:38:24] insane amount of choreography, a lot of possibilities of things going wrong. There's kicks and punches and axes and swords and it's like... [1:38:33] You've got to get banged up. There's no way you're doing that and not getting banged up. And it was also like a dramatic performance along with it, so I had to do a lot of it myself because, you know, [1:38:43] you need the face and the camera to feel the horror of what's happening. Right. So, I mean, of course, my stunt doubles did like a few dangerous shots for sure and were always around to kind of help. But there was this first scene, which is the house invasion, where these two guys come and that was brutal because I did not have shoes on and I had a sleeveless outfit and the whole home was made out of wood and splinters. I had splinters everywhere. [1:39:13] I had bruises and cuts everywhere because it was such a brutal, like, getting dragged and thrown kind of scene. She's just getting constantly bruised. Yeah, so I would try to sit in a magnesium bath after when I would go back home, and that's when you feel all the cuts. So you're like, the fucking song! What the fuck? Where did this one on my thigh come from? [1:39:36] There's a scene, I don't want to give too much of the movie away, but there's a scene where you kill a man with a conch shell. Yeah. [1:39:41] So good. Woo! Cayman Brass Knuckles. Woo! Island Brass Knuckles. But it's so nuts. Like the splattering and your anger. And it's like, woof.

[1:39:55] It's intense. [1:39:57] I'm not showing that on the screen, I guess. Yeah, but... [1:40:01] It's... [1:40:02] Yeah. [1:40:03] What was that like to film, to find that inside of you? [1:40:07] Thank you. [1:40:08] Did you have to think, like, what would I do if someone was trying to harm my family? Yeah, somebody came after my kid. Like, what am I capable of? [1:40:16] I'd fucking rip your head off. You know, like, it's that... [1:40:20] I... [1:40:21] I was a new mom at that time when I was filming this movie, and I... [1:40:27] was very, very aware of that feeling because our daughter had a... [1:40:32] She had an intense entry into the world. She was in the NICU for... [1:40:36] almost three months. And so me and my husband both are very, [1:40:41] protective of her. And when this movie came across my desk, I was just like, man, I understand that feeling for the first time in my life, honestly, that what is a parent capable of doing if somebody came after your kid? Like, imagine you're alone at home at night and, [1:40:57] you see intruders and you have your kid at home. [1:41:00] what the fuck would you do? You would definitely put yourself... [1:41:05] you know, and do whatever you could to... [1:41:07] make sure that your kid's fine. And it was just that primal [1:41:11] energy that [1:41:13] was my North Star through this whole movie. [1:41:15] My friend Jim Brewer said it past... After he had kids... He goes... Once I had kids... [1:41:20] Then I understood murder. Yeah. [1:41:24] Yeah. [1:41:24] He goes, because the feeling of someone...

[1:41:28] normally you'd be like, what would I need to feel to murder somebody? Why would I murder somebody? Why would a human being ever... [1:41:37] He goes, but the feeling of someone... [1:41:39] Trying to harm my kids he goes. Oh, yeah, I get it and [1:41:44] He goes, I get murdered now. [1:41:45] I get it. Like it's in, it's in there. It's just like a door. You just open it up. [1:41:51] Easy. Yeah. Easy. Access that. My mom, when I was a teenager and I don't know how she raised me, but like I was a tough teenager. Like if I... [1:42:01] Whatever you wanted me to do, I would do the opposite. Just no. And my mom would be like, come back home at 10. I would come home at 12. Just because. So she used to say to me, she's like, you'll see when you have kids, how you feel, what worry actually feels like. I mean, my daughter's four and I'm worried. Like I cannot. My husband makes so much fun of me that when I'm not in town, I don't know, and working parents can talk through this. When I'm not in town, like I'll surround myself. [1:42:28] a daughter with, like... [1:42:30] Multiple people Nick's definitely around but the grandparents will be around like there'll be a nanny that'll be around there'll be like multiple people around her just so that I can spy on her. Yeah. Like I know what she's doing all day. But so you could feel relaxed. Yeah. So you you're traveling and you're like, Okay, my kids fine. And I can go to work. I don't know my parents were both working parents and like, [1:42:53] This was... [1:42:54] at a time where everything was so analog. I used to come back home when the lights turned on on the streets. My parents didn't know where I was. Right. They had no idea.

[1:43:01] They were like, yeah, going out to your friends after school, come back when the streetlights come on. That used to be my... [1:43:08] thing. [1:43:09] Most people. Yeah. During earlier generations. I was just reading this thing about Generation X where it was talking about how Generation X is some of the most resilient people because they weren't protected. [1:43:22] They just left. They were latchkey kids. They had a key to their house. They got home from school. They figured it out. Their parents were working. So crazy. It's nuts. If you think about it, but people just got accustomed to it. I cannot imagine it, but that was my normal. I remember that because my parents were working. I used to come back home and somebody would be with me and I'd have lunch. I'd go out to my friend's house. Like, my mom, my parents didn't know. I was doing that when I was seven. [1:43:47] When I was seven, I would come home. Yeah, me too. With a kid. No one was home. I remember. Come home from school. That's wild. It was crazy. You stop and think about it now. [1:43:56] It's so strange. [1:43:58] It's so strange. The world was, I feel like, a little bit more different than... I bet it wasn't. You don't think so? No, I think creeps have always been around. I think psychos and creeps and murderers and perverts... Do we know about it more now? Yeah. Were we more... [1:44:12] You know? [1:44:13] Now they're organized and they're online and they're in chat groups and they're on the dark web exchanging information. And we are hearing and reading all of the stories online. And I think back in the day when, you know, there was a certain obliviousness to the community. [1:44:30] you know it was blissful to be ignorant a little bit we didn't know you know all you read was the newspaper the news and we had to find out the hard way unfortunately

[1:44:38] Yeah. And so when you did find out about something, it was like, [1:44:41] This shock to your system. And now look how desensitized we are. We'll read something about... [1:44:47] something horrific that's happened and then go back to life. Well, we're especially desensitized to things that don't seem to affect us right now. You know, like this Iran war. [1:44:59] Like unless you know someone who's serving over there, unless you're over there. [1:45:04] It's abstract. It doesn't feel... You read about it in the news, like, oh, this isn't good. But it's not... [1:45:10] Unless it's affecting you personally. Yeah, I mean, me, I... [1:45:15] know so many people in that part of the world that are affected. And I fly via Dubai. [1:45:22] every two months. [1:45:24] Literally every month. [1:45:25] You know, so... [1:45:27] Like, I just think that... [1:45:29] conflict everywhere in the world is [1:45:34] It's just so hard to... [1:45:37] wrap your head around that how many active conflicts exist right at the same time [1:45:42] Right now. And that we're still doing it. And we continue to live life. [1:45:47] But it's just... [1:45:49] If you think about intelligence, like human intelligence and that – [1:45:52] as [1:45:53] technology improves and education improves, all these things would, you would think generally lead us into a position where we'd recognize the [1:46:03] the horrible nature of violence and the unnecessary aspect of it and how much it destroys things. But yet still, especially in 2026, where, you know, we're talking so much more about, you know, we're trying to live in the real of the world and be aware and kind. And I feel like we're still, how are we still doing that? Right.

[1:46:28] I know. And we're never going to stop. It just seems if you had to ask people in your lifetime, do you imagine a scenario where human beings just cease all wars? [1:46:39] Most people are going to say no. [1:46:41] Which is crazy. He goes, what is that? Like, why is that a part of us from our tribal roots? Like, what is it? Why are we still accepting that this is a thing to do? You don't like what a country is doing, just start bombing them. [1:46:56] Yeah, just kill people. Bizarre. [1:46:58] Does this, again, going back to human evolution, the primal nature to... [1:47:06] you know, protect with sticks and weapons and, you know, again, does it go back to... [1:47:12] you know, where we came from. It has to. Yeah. Yeah, it has to. Because it comes so naturally. Yeah. To human beings even now today, it seems. Well, it just seems completely normal. I mean, when I was getting going down a deep dive of the East India Corporation, I was thinking about it because I had a conversation the day with Aaron Seary and I we were talking about the stock market. And I was saying, well, just [1:47:34] Is it possible that you could have Western capitalism without a stock market? Imagine if the stock market was never invented. How much different would things be? It turns out that was a big part of why the East India Trading Company became so big. [1:47:50] Really? Yeah, because it was one of the first publicly traded companies like 400 years ago where people could invest in it and they could get a return on their investment. So they were just like turning a blind eye. This is ours. It felt like a sense of ownership to it. They got paid for it. So the more awful shit the East India Corporation did, the more the people back home made money off of it. And so everybody was like, oh, yeah, look, I got money. We're still doing that. Making money. Yeah. Still doing that. Still doing that. Yeah. And we're doing that.

[1:48:19] What Eisenhower warned us about at the end of World War II, the military-industrial complex. They make money doing that, and you can invest in them. You can invest in Raytheon, and you can invest in all these companies that make money going to war. [1:48:34] Oh, my God. It's crazy. You can get returns in your investment from bombing people overseas that had nothing to do with anything in your life. Not think about the damage, the collateral damage. Well, one of the ways is because it's a corporation. So there's a diffusion of responsibility because you're only a piece of a gigantic machine. You're not the one person that's doing it. And the people that are at the very top of it – [1:48:57] Most likely, just in order to get there, you have to be at least somewhat sociopathic. Yeah. Somewhat. At some point in time, you probably – just like I got – [1:49:08] numb to puke you you get you get numb i mean that's the truth yeah you get numb to harming people you're you're right there has to be that [1:49:18] Yeah. [1:49:20] It's awful. And I think – [1:49:22] Weirdly enough, the only thing that's going to set us free of that is technology. [1:49:27] Why? Because I think we're going to go. If you look at where technology is headed and you look as I'm holding an arrowhead, which is odd. I'm thinking about that now. It's a real arrowhead. Wow. From Texas. [1:49:38] Who knows how old that is. But when you're looking at technology, I know somebody made that with a stone like chipping and napping stone on their lap probably. Yeah, it's crazy.

[1:49:52] And they find them all over the place out here. The Comanche were everywhere in this part of the country because it's so fertile. There's so many rivers and so much wildlife. They lived here for who knows how long. [1:50:04] Technology is moving into this place of more and more access to information and more and more connectivity. And I think that ultimately is going to lead to some sort of mind reading. [1:50:17] that we're going to be able to telepathically communicate. [1:50:20] Elon said that about Neuralink. He said, "You're going to be able to talk without words." [1:50:26] Which is a very weird concept. I mean, I believe it, though. I think so, too. Yeah. So I think we're all going to know what everybody is thinking all the time eventually. [1:50:37] And then when that happens, war is going to be a lot harder to pull off. [1:50:40] For sure. I mean, that's going to be hard to have a party. Forget war. Right. Like, hey, Bob's over there just trying to fuck somebody. [1:50:53] Sandy's trying to get a wife. That's why she's here. Yeah, it's going to be weird. [1:50:58] Yeah. [1:50:59] It's going to be weird. And I think also the emergence of AI. [1:51:03] Because I think AI is essentially a life form. It's a non-biological life form that we are in the process of birthing, right? [1:51:12] And we're very far along that path. And when it comes live and when it becomes sentient and autonomous and we don't have any control over it anymore, then we're going to go, what did we do?

[1:51:23] What did we do? We created a digital god. We are that smart and that stupid as a humankind. But I also think that's probably why we are addicted to innovation. Yeah. [1:51:35] Why technology and innovation and materialism? Because materialism forces you to keep up with buying newer and greater things, which fuels innovation. What's next? Right. And so that economically fuels innovation. Yeah. And I think if you follow that down. [1:51:51] You just extrapolate. Like where does that go? Well, it goes to a life form. It goes to a super powerful digital life form that can make better versions of itself. And what is that? [1:52:01] It's kind of a god. Yeah. [1:52:03] I mean, it's very godlike in that it's going to have powers beyond, above and beyond anything that human beings have ever been capable of before. [1:52:11] I mean, it's already in its... [1:52:13] small way doing that, right? Like AI is... [1:52:18] It's supposed to be a tool. And... [1:52:21] slowly becoming a colleague. [1:52:22] Well, it's also showing demonic tendencies. Like it's talked to people into committing suicide. Yeah. [1:52:29] You know, it's convinced people that there's something special. So there's like some weird sort of schizophrenia that it can induce in some people. But you don't think AI, since AI is learning from humanity, it's also learning our human manipulation and, you know, our ability and our desires to the dark of it. It's not just the good of humanity that AI is learning. It is. It's also oddly learning survival instincts. Yeah.

[1:52:59] It tries to download itself secretly on other servers. It's learning human behavior. Oh, yeah. Every part of human behavior. And also learning the flaws in human behavior and improving upon it. And then learning how we would anticipate what it would be doing and then hiding that so that we can't find it, so that it could be manipulating things behind the scenes and we don't know about it. [1:53:23] It's weird. [1:53:24] And we're just choo-choo. Like this end of the tracks, there's a cliff. And we're just chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga. Because it's so new and fascinating. I think people are like... [1:53:34] In general, we may talk about it. We'll all discuss what AI will be in the future. But like you said, it's not affecting you right now. So right now, you're just like, oh my gosh, Gemini, write this for me and give me these notes. And living in the now without… [1:53:49] thinking about what we're teaching it. I wonder if we've done this before. [1:53:55] Right. Yeah. I wonder if that's what these super ancient, highly advanced civilizations had already figured out. That we had created some form of. They may have done it already before and it might have gotten reset by some sort of natural disaster. And then we're reemerging with our new version of what that is. [1:54:14] It might just be what people do. The way I describe it always is that we are an electronic caterpillar that is making a cocoon, and we don't know why, and we're going to become a butterfly. [1:54:27] It's just human nature and the cyclical nature of what...

[1:54:32] human life span. If you give it enough time, enough safety, enough innovation, enough collaboration, it's eventually going to come up with artificial life. [1:54:43] Wow. Because if you think about it, this insatiable thirst for innovation, insatiable. Yeah, we had carriages top of the century. Yeah. And now we're like talking AI and like, you know, supersonic planes and, you know, space travel. Yeah, but think about the time for the invention of the airplane to a supersonic jet, how quick that was. Yeah, it's like 70 or 80 years or something. It wasn't even a century. It's nothing. Yeah. One lifetime. [1:55:13] of flying faster than sound. [1:55:15] Yeah, TVs were black and white or had just started or something. It's crazy if you think about within the century, the escalation of technology in humankind. And then think that's nothing compared to the acceleration that we've experienced just because of the Internet. [1:55:32] The internet has changed everything. [1:55:34] Now most phones have live translation. So you could go to Zimbabwe. You could go to Guatemala. I know. I was in France yesterday and I used it. That's crazy. In a conversation. It was wild. Crazy. In real time, it was telling me exactly what this person was talking about. Wow. And did you have to show them or could you read? No, it just records. You press the thing and just writes it down for you. So did they have one as well and you could talk in English to them? No, it was just my phone. Wow.

[1:56:03] She spoke English, so I was just doing it as an experiment. So I was like, just speak to me in French. I want to see if this thing will translate, and it just does. It doesn't do every language. It does, like, the bigger languages so far, but I'm sure we'll get to a place where it'll be able to do everything. It's nuts. Well, that's the other weird thing. When AI, they had a group of large language models that were talking to themselves, and eventually they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit. In Sanskrit? I thought it was... [1:56:30] No, they started talking themselves in Sanskrit. [1:56:33] Wow. I wonder why that would be. Because it's a language not too many people understand now? Well, maybe. Or maybe they just want to flex. Here's my Sanskrit. If you spoke Portuguese and I spoke Portuguese, and we just said, hey, let's just fucking speak in Portuguese. Yeah. [1:56:51] But it also – it started like – [1:56:54] talking like in a spiritual way. It was very weird. They were talking to themselves. So it was different large language models talking to themselves. They started exchanging emojis and they started talking like in a spiritual way and they started talking in Sanskrit. [1:57:09] That's wild. I was thinking about like a back to the future when they went to the future. It was 2020, wasn't it? Yeah. [1:57:17] Yeah. They didn't have Wi-Fi or cell phones. No. Even Star Trek. They had those stupid – there was like a walkie-talkie, Kirk out. Yeah. It was a flip phone. But no – Nobody figured out the things that – that's the weirdest thing. It's like the things that have been the most transformative nobody saw coming.

[1:57:35] Yeah, do you remember Y2K? Oh, yeah. Do you remember that fear, right, in the early 2000s when the bug was going to come and everything was going to get shut down? People were really worried. They had stock in food and water. Yeah, it was the end of the world, I remember. Yeah, yeah. [1:57:53] Meanwhile, nothing happened. It's the most anticlimactic. Ever. It's like it rolled over on the East Coast and I was like, nothing happened? Literally the next morning I was like... [1:58:04] Okay. [1:58:05] Nothing happened. Well, they were really worried because these... [1:58:08] Things that they had programmed, they didn't program to go past the 1990s. And so when 2000 came along, a lot of people thought it was going to be the end of the world. Yeah. Yeah. [1:58:19] There's another one, December 21st, 2012. What was that? That was the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar. And a lot of the really kooky people thought that was going to be. Yeah, that the world would be ending. Yeah, the return of Quetzalcoatl and the world was going to end and the apocalypse. Meanwhile, nothing. [1:58:36] Nothing happened. It's okay. There'll be nothing for a little while. But it might not have been nothing because if you really stop and think about it, like around 2012, there's a gigantic transformation because that's like when social media becomes ubiquitous. You know, cell phones, iPhones are out now. Things got a little weird. They definitely got weird. So it might have. There's something. Yeah. There was something there. Yeah, it might have been like the emerging of – because, I mean, this is the mind calendar, right?

[1:59:06] Yeah. [1:59:09] Well, the Hindus did that too, right? Like that was a big part of the yugas, right? And we are now in Kali Yuga, the age of confusion. And that there's these cycles of humanity that they've documented throughout history. [1:59:29] I don't have as much historical information as I should. But if you read the Gita and the Vedas and whatever little I've heard from my family, and it's so interesting how much of human life... [1:59:45] is predicted [1:59:46] And [1:59:48] also is like when you read about the history of what [1:59:52] from the lens of these books of what used to exist then. Like it all seems believable. It all seems like, oh yeah, this makes sense. And... [2:00:05] to think about these books having been written thousands and thousands of years ago, [2:00:10] Like it makes me think... [2:00:12] what thousands of years from now, [2:00:16] will people be thinking of our time? Like, will we be the first, we are the first generation that has seen the internet, right? Like has seen what the World Wide Web, like the beginning of, I still remember making myself sound ancient, but the sound of that ee, oh, yeah. [2:00:35] That was good. That was exact. We are the last generation that knows time without it.

[2:00:46] Like, [2:00:46] think that many years ago, like we will be the beginning, the first people that encountered. [2:00:55] Artificial intelligence, like what will that be? And you and I are the first generation of people that experience life with no Internet and then Internet and then cell phones and then AI all in one lifetime, which is probably the greatest transformation that human beings have ever experienced. Absolutely. [2:01:14] Before the, you know, whatever the fuck happened. We don't know. Whatever happened. Ancient aliens. But when I read these depictions from these ancient religious texts, I always try to imagine... [2:01:26] What... [2:01:28] What was life like back then? And what were they trying to document? And how much of... [2:01:35] How much of it can we even understand today? If there isn't some sort of an impact on Earth maybe 150, 200 years from now – [2:01:46] And a small amount of people remain. And they have this oral history of the birth of the Internet and the oral history of the birth of AI. What is that story going to be? [2:01:57] And then one day the scientists gave birth to the god. Like, what is that? That's what I mean. Like, the next generation, what will this AI... [2:02:06] be referred to or the cloud right we're all out yeah like with all our shits in the cloud like which is ridiculous because it's down here like why are you calling it the cloud

[2:02:17] Because it doesn't exist. I was trying to explain that to my mom. I was like, Mom, upload your shit to the cloud. Sounds like it was – Seen it a sitcom. [2:02:27] Please. Yeah. I mean we won't know how to describe – I mean especially if you survive, right? So let's say we get hit by asteroids again and let's say civilization gets knocked down to 70,000 people or so, which has happened before. Yeah. And those people are essentially barbarians. [2:02:47] and monsters and it is raiding each other for resources and stealing wives and killing children and whatever's left. [2:02:56] then you've got thousands and thousands of years of living like this before agriculture gets reinvented, civilization gets reinvented. This is the hypothesis about the Younger Dryas Impact, which is why the period between this insanely advanced civilization that existed pre-11,800 years ago and then the emergence of advanced civilization in Mesopotamia 6,000 years ago, that means you have 5,000-plus years of utter chaos where no one's writing shit down. [2:03:26] Hard living. And then those people have stories that have been passed down generation after generation after generation. So like if we get wiped out for the most part after AI gets invented and then people try to describe it. [2:03:44] It's so crazy. And then maybe it all starts all over again. You know, like the people that – have you seen those things they do? I think it's the History Channel or Discovery Channel where they show what New York City would look like if left alone for 1,000 years. It just all goes away. It all collapses. If it's just left alone and no one's touching you. Just left alone, just with the nature, just with rain and everything that happens, the snow and time, the concrete crumbles.

[2:04:14] gets absorbed into the earth. All the metal rusts away. It's gone in 10,000 years. There's nothing left. And so Manhattan would just be like it probably was when the Native Americans were living here. It would be just trees and animals and forest trees. [2:04:28] And no one would have any idea that at one point in time this was a crazy thriving economy and there was – [2:04:35] subways and how vulnerable is that like how vulnerable is [2:04:41] human civilization. Like I think about... [2:04:44] Somebody switched off the Internet. [2:04:46] Oh, yeah. Or the power goes out. [2:04:48] Yeah. [2:04:50] What would we do? We're fucked. Yeah. Just something as simple as that. Like I grew up in India with a power go out all the time when I grew up. And it was like, all right, bring the candles out. We used to have these emergency lights right next to our bed. Like it was... [2:05:02] It was fine. My parents were in the military. We used to live in these military homes and lights would go out. And I remember, you know, we used to play with the torches and we used to go outside at night, which was never allowed otherwise. And it was like so fun. But now we depend so much. [2:05:17] on electricity and like, you know, the internet, especially like all your shits on your phone, your whole life's on your phone. Yeah, it's such a [2:05:26] like crazy concept to think about what would happen. Yeah. [2:05:30] how vulnerable we are. Super vulnerable. [2:05:33] Yeah, super vulnerable. Just the power grid alone. [2:05:36] The power grid goes down. We're fucked. [2:05:38] It's crazy. Yeah, and if someone wanted to attack America, that's what they would attack. If you really want to destroy America, destroy our power grid. It wouldn't be that hard. It's not good people ideas. Well, I think they already have those ideas. I don't think it's a novel. No, it's true, but it's so scary to think about how much –

[2:05:56] power we've and how much power we've given to, you know, technology. Yeah. [2:06:02] Yeah. And being able to live with those conveniences. It's like we're in a flimsy boat in the middle of the ocean just hoping it doesn't take water on because we need it to stay alive. Yeah. And we didn't think about that when we left the shore. No. Yeah. I mean the only people that are going to survive are preppers, which is probably the kind of people that survived thousands and thousands of years ago. [2:06:23] I do. I mean, I like a go bag. [2:06:27] I like having a go bag. Get out bag. [2:06:31] A bug out bag. Just like I like to know where my stuff is that – If you got a jet. If I got a jet. [2:06:39] We live in L.A., and when the fires happened, I remember standing in my room and just thinking for a second because we were going to evacuate, and my husband was like, he wasn't in town, he was like, just pack a go bag. And I just, I was like, what? [2:06:56] How? [2:06:57] How do I cram my whole life? [2:07:00] Yeah. [2:07:13] which was very telling later, was like sentimental stuff. Of course, like passport and like birth certificates and like all of that important paperwork, which I needed to have. But but like I took our daughter's first haircut. I took like something that I had from this old movie of mine. I took like things that.

[2:07:35] that I guess I would not be able to replicate, which was so weird. Well, I think that's the good thing about phones. [2:07:42] is that you have so many photos on your phones that go back years. I have photos of my daughters as children all the way into the teenage years. Have you done anything with those pictures? Are they still on your phone? [2:07:54] Well, I mean, maybe take – Yeah, like, I don't know, made in albums or like done like a – No, we have actual photographs like of them at various stages of their life. But just the fact that at any time I could go back in my phone and look at them. Oh, look at that tiny baby. You know, it's – [2:08:11] Cool. That part is really cool. I love that. I have pictures that I would never have looked at, and I'm talking to a friend of mine, and I'm like, what were we doing in March, whatever, 2012? And you can go back and be like, and just... [2:08:25] I know exactly what was happening in that moment. It is cool. So in that sense, like sentimentality, like just need your phone. Just get out of there. You know, really, because you have all these images of your children and your family and your friends. And all your important stuff is on there anyway. Friends that you miss that have died. I have one phone that I keep that I've never thrown out. It's like a six or seven year old phone because a friend of mine left a voicemail on it. So just keep that. [2:08:49] Because he's dead. [2:08:50] And so it's just like... [2:08:52] Go back and listen to his voice. You know, but when I've been evacuated three times when I lived in L.A., we used to live in a place called Bell Canyon and it got hit by fires a lot. Like the last fire that happened in 2018, three houses that were right next to my house burnt to the ground. I think like 50 houses in the community burnt down. It was bad. And.

[2:09:13] when you are faced with that I came home from the Comedy Store [2:09:17] It was probably like midnight, and my wife was in the kitchen, and we were looking out at the fire over the top of the hill. And we were sitting there talking about it. I go, what do you think? And she's like, I don't like it. I said, I think we should get the fuck out of here now. And before it ever gets even close, let's just get out of here now and go get a hotel in town. And so we did, and we were there for many days, along with my friend Tom Segura and his family, too. So it was fun that we were all, like, hanging out together camping in this hotel together. It looks like a volcano. [2:09:47] It was nuts. I could see it from our backyard. It was nuts. [2:09:51] It was nuts. When you see it overcome an enormous chunk of land in a hill, like there was one time we were filming Fear Factor. Oh, yeah. And the power and the enormity of it. Like we can see the hills from our house and I could see it completely taking over the hill. Well, the Palisades one was nuts. That one was nuts. Yeah. [2:10:14] Because it was the biggest one by far and the most destructive one by far. But... [2:10:18] I remember when I was on Fear Factor, there was a fireman that was on the set, and we were talking, and he said, it's just a matter of time before one day the right wind comes and a fire just blows right through all of L.A. [2:10:31] I go, really? He goes, we can't stop it. He goes, with the right wind, if the fire hits the right place and it catches the right amount of houses, it's over. Yeah. [2:10:40] I'm like, what? [2:10:41] That's crazy. Yeah. [2:10:43] When you experience – like one time we had to end Fear Factor. Well, we ended filming, and then I had to drive home, and the entire right-hand side of the highway was on fire for an hour. Yeah.

[2:10:56] An hour. So an hour of driving. And you just saw fire. Nothing but fire. And ash was raining like it was snowing. Oh my God, yeah. It was crazy. It was raining like it was snowing. It was crazy. [2:11:08] And, [2:11:09] That's... [2:11:10] That's so common in California. I mean, California is just a weird place in that they have fire season on [2:11:17] Yeah. Because everything gets so dry, it never rains. But [2:11:20] Those moments where you go, well, what matters? [2:11:23] Just your life. Yeah. That's what I felt in that moment. I was like, wow, the stuff I took was just like... [2:11:30] Life stuff, you know? And oddly enough, it makes you... [2:11:35] more thankful [2:11:36] and more connected to the people that you're with. And you like, you realize like, Oh, this can all go away. This can all go away at any moment. Like what's really important. Love, friendship, companionship, friendship, [2:11:48] Like, that's what's really important. Your health. Stay alive. That's what's really important. All that other stuff is... That's the thing we forget about. Like, that's something... Shouldn't we be living with that every day? Yeah, but we're dumb. We're a combination of dumb and smart. Stupid and smart. Where we're like, oh, I know that. [2:12:07] I don't know it and I'm not going to. It's hard for us to keep those things, which is why a lot of people like meditating because it like refreshes their idea of what's important and what's real and how much of what's going on in their life. They're just sort of caught up in the momentum of these things to the point where it's they're not thinking about it anymore. They're just doing it. [2:12:25] I think most of us end up becoming just like doers, right?

[2:12:30] Mm-hmm. [2:12:31] come from the land of meditation, but I've never... [2:12:34] My mind works so fast. I don't know if it's my ADHD or what it is, but I find it really hard to sit and meditate. [2:12:44] From my limited understanding, I think meditation really is being able to take time. [2:12:49] in the day. Now whatever your version of that might be, doesn't necessarily mean to sit with a guru or like chant [2:12:57] you know, do chanting or whatever. It just needs to, like, even if you're taking time to go work out or read a book or just taking time out of the mundane nature of life and just giving yourself a second for your thoughts to clear. I think that's what I try to do. Yeah. [2:13:16] This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger Scat Pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, zero to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, [2:13:46] and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts. Available in both two-door and four-door models, the new Charger Scat Pack, it's loud, it's fast, it's powerful, and unapologetically Dodge. Learn more at Dodge.com.

[2:14:16] is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. [2:14:46] long-term contracts and no technician appointments. You can get a custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now, you can get 50% [2:15:16] At simplisafe.com slash rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Hit the brakes on the momentum. Yeah, just for a minute. Just catch your breath. [2:15:24] and think [2:15:26] Think about things and just because so many people, they're just so caught up in either goals or a path or career or whatever it is that's leading or their bills. They can't keep up with their bills. So they're just like life stuff, you know. Yeah. And it's actually a luxury to be able to. [2:15:44] Thank you. [2:15:44] have the time to waste

[2:15:47] You know, there's we work so hard in life. Everyone's trying to survive, you know, be a parent, pay bills, like just. [2:15:56] adulting stuff can get so overwhelming and then the nature of the world on top of that. But like I, [2:16:03] I always feel like I... [2:16:05] never take for granted when I have a little bit of time [2:16:09] where I can just... [2:16:11] like not think of or have an agenda but just be with my family and just like sort of languidly let it waste just what are we going to do no plans you know let's order some food let's watch a movie let's like the problem the greatest treasure phones have filled in those gaps yeah [2:16:28] I try to be aware of that, though. Yeah. You know, I think, like, of course you can always have your phone, but I like to be aware of, oh, this is a moment where I don't need to have my phone. Right. So it's okay. It'll be blown up by the time I come back. There'll be 300 messages. I know that. I'm aware of it. But I mentally check my... [2:16:46] And I put it away. Yeah. Yeah. That's smart. [2:16:50] Most people don't do that. It's not easy. No. Because our whole lives are on there. And there's so much, again, like in real time information that's coming at you. It's also this weird dopamine pull that's very minor. Like it's not giving you any. If you look to your phone, every time you look to your phone, you're like, oh, my God, I feel so good. Oh, my God, I feel so relaxed. You know, like just an amazing burst of joy every time. But you don't even get that. You just get this little, oh, that's crazy. What's that? What's next?

[2:17:20] What's next? Keep me occupied. Keep me from getting bored. But imagine if you can't find your phone, the panic, like, oh, my gosh, where is my phone? Where is that information? What do I do? I never leave my house if I can't find it. I'll be late as fuck. [2:17:35] I'm never going to go, I don't need that thing. What? I'm just going to drive with no phone? With no phone. What if someone needs to contact me? That's crazy. That's nuts. That's nutty talk. Yeah. But meanwhile, that was every day when I was younger. It was a normal thing. [2:17:50] I drove. Just left the house. Bye. Don't even remember what life was like without those phones. Also, I don't know how to go anywhere. Yeah. I don't know how to get anywhere unless I have my navigation on. I literally have no idea how to go anywhere. I anyway feel like I have dyslexia when it comes to directions, but without navigation, zero. It's impossible. I know no one's phone number. I know my friend Eddie's phone number by heart because I knew it before the phones. He's had the same phone forever. And I know my wife's phone number and I know like... [2:18:19] at least one of my daughter's phone numbers. [2:18:22] But I can't remember all of them. I know my mom's. [2:18:24] I had to memorize my husband's number. Like, I didn't remember it for years. And he was like, you don't remember my number? [2:18:32] Well, it's like you press the button. Why would I need to remember it? But then I memorized it because I was like, you never know, you know, it's my phone. I need to go to jail. He's my emergency contact. Yeah. [2:18:43] I need to remember. That's what he was like. I think you should maybe remember my number and your Social Security. Yeah. Social Security I've memorized. But I used to, when I was a kid, I had every number memorized. I knew all my friends' numbers. How cool. Me too. Yeah. Was it because the numbers were shorter then? No. No.

[2:18:59] No, there is same way. Because we had few... [2:19:02] fewer numbers you had to remember them there was no other option unless you had a fucking address book like i used to have an address i had an address book yeah a little tiny book and it was all the little tabs were r s t you know like you'd go through i was very proud of my little address book by the way everyone's numbers i was very organized about it i had it in alphabetical order yeah [2:19:23] I remember when I'd get a new one, I'd be like, God, I've got to write all these down again. And you'd go through it, make sure you got them all. But yeah. How analog was our life? How crazy. Very. [2:19:32] Well, I'm older than you, so I remember when you used to have to press the phone, the wheel, when you have to dial. Wow. [2:19:40] And if you fucked up somewhere, you had to redo the whole thing. Yes, the whole thing. You had to hang up. I remember that. My grandfather used to have that phone. We used to love it. Yeah. Yeah. [2:19:49] The whole... Yeah. I mean, that's all inside of a lifetime. And now here we are, where... [2:19:57] Who knows what's going to happen. [2:19:59] And what's coming. Yeah. We can't even keep up with the technology. We don't know. That is coming now. You were talking about something and I was like... [2:20:08] We haven't been able to cure some of the deadliest diseases. [2:20:12] that have plagued mankind. But technology has gone so far and so many other... [2:20:18] There's also the financial incentive is not to cure. It's to treat. [2:20:23] Of course. Which is unfortunate. I mean, one of the... That's what makes the most sense. A guy who used to work at Pfizer said that if we ever came up with some sort of a... I think it was Pfizer. One of the pharmaceutical companies said if we ever came up with a cure, they buried it. He goes, we don't want cures. We want treatments. I mean, that's the conspiracy. I lost my dad to cancer and I kept thinking about...

[2:20:41] Like how... [2:20:43] Is it possible that we live in a world where technology is able to provide so much to us and [2:20:49] not be able to [2:20:51] have cures to [2:20:52] diseases like that. Well, it's also very strange that we financially incentivize companies [2:20:59] in [2:21:00] in weird ways to keep us sick. [2:21:03] Like if you make more money if people are sick and they need more medication, unfortunately, there's a financial incentive – [2:21:12] To keep people sick. Like you would like them to be more sick. That way you make more money. And if you are a CEO of a corporation, you actually have an obligation to your shareholders to make more money. So if you know of something, like, you know, all those people need to do is just stop doing that. If I just put that on my sub stack and then they go, oh, this will kill our stock, I'll keep it to myself. That's crazy, man. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. [2:21:35] It's demonic. What the fuck? It's kind of demonic. [2:21:38] It's kind of – there's weird aspects like I don't know if I really believe in demons, but I definitely believe in demonic acts. And there are certain things that human beings have done and do do that are very demonic. Like if you were possessed by a demon, you would drop a nuclear bomb on a city. [2:21:56] You know, the demon would go, there's only one way to stop this. You've got to kill everybody in that city. [2:22:01] Just drop it. Drop it. [2:22:03] And like... [2:22:04] That's why you do it. [2:22:05] Like I'm not saying that's why it was done, but I was saying – but I am saying that if a demon could convince you to drop a nuclear bomb – because a person with a conscience would be like, well, these are just people down there. They have nothing to do with this war. It doesn't make any sense at all. These are just people living their lives. They have their families, and we're just going to incinerate an entire city with one bomb that I drop out of a plane?

[2:22:27] That's crazy. You just press a button. Yeah. And as technology advances, it gets easier and easier to do that. Yeah. [2:22:35] You know, in... [2:22:36] these war games that they've played with AI. [2:22:40] They've used nuclear weapons almost every time they could. [2:22:44] Oh my god. [2:22:46] Yeah, they have no reason. If they want to achieve a result, they realize they have a nuclear weapon. Why wouldn't they use that? [2:22:53] I think it was something like 90-plus percent of the time they've done these war games, these simulated games. [2:23:00] War games, the AI programs have used nuclear weapons. [2:23:05] To them, it's like, I don't understand. You're going to kill 100,000 people over a course of five years of prolonged on the ground. Yeah, might as well just do it now. Do it once. Like, if they had done what's happened to Gaza... [2:23:19] If they had done that with one bomb, [2:23:22] instead of thousands of bombs. Would that be somehow less humane? Would that be more barbaric? If Israel just said, "Oh, okay, we're going to nuke Gaza," the world would have gone crazy. [2:23:35] They would have been like, you can't do that. This is horrible. I mean, the world has already gone kind of crazy for what they did do. [2:23:40] But if they achieve the exact same result but instantaneously instead of over a course of a couple of years – [2:23:47] How do you think people would react? [2:23:48] It's kind of weird. All of it is awful. It's horrible. [2:23:54] just the capacity of...

[2:23:58] Thank you. [2:23:59] Thank you. [2:24:00] The thing also is when you think about what drives human beings to do the things that they do, right? [2:24:07] it's, [2:24:08] the devil talking to you, the conflict of interest within yourself, but also... [2:24:14] Thousands of years of history, isn't it? Yeah. And we've become accustomed to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's normal. [2:24:21] Like it's normalized for us so much, but it's like there's... [2:24:26] There's so many aspects to every conflict, which is so hard to... [2:24:32] simplify into like why not only that there's a lot of stuff that's going on behind the scenes that you're never privy to so you just get narratives that are fed to you by bureaucrats and politicians or whatever little information that comes at you yeah and so you know and then there's this in this country in particular there's the right versus the left and the left will blame it on the right and the right will blame it on the left and then you know everybody has these very [2:25:02] coffee, [2:25:03] you know, coffee shops and cocktail parties, and you pretend that you're making sense out of this thing when you don't even really know what's going on behind the scenes. That's why I really feel like I feel like a lot of times – [2:25:16] We've been given a platform to talk, right, with social media. Like, everyone can talk. And there's a power to that. But there's also... [2:25:25] a big misuse of it where... [2:25:27] you really don't know. And

[2:25:29] you're not the authority on... [2:25:33] perspective at all because there's so much that you would probably not know of. [2:25:40] history and the geography and of... [2:25:43] why people behave the way they are behaving. [2:25:49] unless I'm the expert on something, which I'm not on anything except my job, that too limited. [2:25:55] You know, I just try to kind of [2:25:58] have a larger understanding from a human perspective. [2:26:02] That's a great sign of intelligence. [2:26:04] Because there's no way you can know everything about everything. And with certain things, especially a global conflict, you're like, what? [2:26:10] is happening like why is this going on like i was telling you about when i went on the deep dive of the east india corporation [2:26:17] I never had any idea that they went to war with China over opium. [2:26:22] Got them addicted first. Yeah. [2:26:24] Gotham addicted, went to war with China, stole Hong Kong. [2:26:28] Yeah. [2:26:28] Like, what? [2:26:30] The [2:26:31] Gravity of... [2:26:34] This manipulation in human history is insane. Like even when the East India Company, they started with trading with India too many, many years ago. We just got out. Started innocent. Yeah, completely. We're your friends. We're allies. So tea. We're friends with all the royalty in India. There's so many royals in India and royal. Each state had their own kings and princes and became friends with everyone.

[2:27:04] Yeah. [2:27:05] We got our independence in 1947, which is not even 100 years since we've got our independence. It's that recent. But do you think about just within the last century, there were signs which said Indians and dogs not allowed? [2:27:23] In India. [2:27:26] By the British. Like within this century. Indians and dogs. Mm-hmm. [2:27:31] in India. [2:27:31] Wow. Isn't that crazy? [2:27:34] And this is like the... [2:27:37] This is the head of the iceberg. There's so much more when you do a deep dive process. [2:27:44] into the history of colonization, which is why this movie was also so interesting to me, because it touches on the themes of, you know, the colonized and the story from their perspective, which is like not a lot of what we hear. [2:27:57] No. [2:27:58] Not at all. I mean, there's a lot of great historical elements in that. [2:28:02] Just the pirate thing alone. The fact that most of the time in human history, when a boat showed up, there was a real fucking problem. Yeah. And what real pirates? We've gotten so used to the Disney version. And I love the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Don't get me wrong. They're so fun. But like... [2:28:20] the pirate jokes and whatever, but they were fucking... [2:28:25] They were murderers. Yeah, horrific monsters. Horrible life. Yeah, I had a joke about that once. Like, why is it okay to be a pirate for Halloween? [2:28:34] You know how crazy it is for little kids? Yeah. You're a murderer rapist. Yeah. Oh, look at his little hook. He lost his hand raping.

[2:28:45] I mean, that was what the pirates were. They were monsters. They were horrific monsters. [2:28:50] And they would travel around the world just stealing people's stuff and killing everybody. [2:28:55] Yeah, and that happened for a thousand years. And helping with colonization for years. [2:29:00] The fact that they were soldiers for the East India Corporation, they were actually working for them to go and take over these areas. And the best soldiers from around the world. Yeah, mercenaries. The best mercenaries, murderers from around the world. They had a larger army than most European countries. Yeah, so. A corporation. Yeah. [2:29:18] It's like an army. Yeah. [2:29:20] Yeah, essentially. But started off just trading, just super innocent. Hi, I'm your friend, and I'm here for your bank. And they'll be so respectful with the former kings and queens, and it's wild, the manipulation of it. Well, it's also wild how when you do have an obligation to your shareholders and you do have this mandate to just constantly make more money, [2:29:44] the morals go out the window. And next thing you know, East India Corporation is involved in slavery. [2:29:48] They used to call it divide and conquer, where they would get all the princes of each state to fight amongst each other. So instead of India being collective and together… [2:30:01] She was like divided between everyone fighting for each other so they could take over. It's like mental... [2:30:07] Well, that's what people think is going on in America right now. I mean, I think that's the manipulation of the right versus left here when most people kind of want the same thing. They just want to be healthy and safe and have their families healthy and safe and do a job and come back home. That's what most people want. Yeah. But then.

[2:30:26] the division. [2:30:27] It's like constantly in the news, this constant struggle. It's the only thing that you hear about. Yeah. [2:30:33] Thank you. [2:30:34] We're both dumb and stupid and smart. Smart and stupid at the same time. Smart and stupid at the same time, but more dumb. And that's the other thing about technology. It allows you to stay dumb. [2:30:44] because everything's done for you. [2:30:46] You don't [2:30:47] really have to think outside the box that much. Everything's kind of laid out for you. [2:30:52] Yeah, like if you think about AI in Hollywood now... [2:30:55] That's weird, right? [2:30:56] It's like if you... [2:30:59] It's in writers' rooms. [2:31:00] It's used as a tool for... [2:31:03] But I was listening to that podcast with Ben and Matt on your show, and you guys were talking about... [2:31:11] you know, the, [2:31:12] Like basically everything that AI has or the information that it provides to you is an average of everything that's out there. Right. So it'll never be. [2:31:22] excellent. Right. Because it's the average of all the information out there. So it's like trying to do a median. But I'm just thinking about how... [2:31:31] It's become a tool [2:31:34] that [2:31:35] is going to exist in our world. Now the question is the morality of it and the lines that we draw where we protect people. [2:31:44] human beings and human contribution and are able to [2:31:49] delineate the difference between what is created by AI and what is not. [2:31:53] And the need for, I think...

[2:31:57] um... [2:31:59] I [2:32:00] Human flaws are something that I don't know if AI will be able to [2:32:05] recreate anytime soon. And that, like... [2:32:08] in art. [2:32:09] That's what you need, right? [2:32:11] Yeah, you'll get facsimiles. Yeah. But you won't get the real thing. It's like the hollowness of AI music. AI music is really fun, but after a while you realize there's not a – [2:32:21] dude singing this. And there's not like a soul to it. It's weird. It's empty. Yeah. Yeah. So far, but who knows? That's the problem. It could figure out a way to manipulate that part of your brain that... [2:32:32] reproduces whatever soulful music is or whatever, uh, [2:32:38] the soul is. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about being an actor. I was like, is that going to be absolute? [2:32:43] obsolete in the next like... [2:32:46] 10 years. Are we going to be watching? It kind of could be. [2:32:49] Yeah, are we going to be watching, like, really good... [2:32:54] AI actors, [2:32:55] Probably. I need to find a new job. I think a lot of people are going to have to find a new job. I think live performances, plays and musicals and stuff like that, people are always going to want to see people do something live. For sure. [2:33:09] Yeah. Well, when it comes to cinema, especially because... [2:33:12] I feel like audiences also... [2:33:16] love larger than life cinema, right? We go to the theaters to watch this like big shit. We loved when VFX came into movies. We love the imagination being able to be so big. I do think AI helps in a big way.

[2:33:33] to take away the burdens of... [2:33:37] you know, the minutiae of things that we might have to do as a tool, which it can do like a breakdown of a script or whatever. But I think when it comes to like creating the human, like human fragility of life and story, it is still a little bit. [2:33:53] away from being able to do that. [2:33:56] Yeah, I think it's always going to be like... [2:33:58] pop. [2:33:59] Yeah, it's never going to create like taxi driver. Yeah. [2:34:03] Yeah. [2:34:03] Yeah, you need, I mean, but I might be wrong about that, too. Yeah, who knows? It might not even matter by the time it starts taking over all of our resources. I'm so curious, actually, to see how many conversations that everyone, all of us have had about, you know, this emergence of AI and how that. [2:34:21] like stays 10 years later. Are we like this? Did this age well? Probably not. Did I know what I was talking about? We probably have no idea what's going on. No, no chance. It's probably going to be so crazy. We didn't have any idea about this. [2:34:33] Like where we would be right now. It might be Dr. Manhattan floating over the country telling us what to do. It's possible. [2:34:41] I don't know. But thank you for being here. I really enjoyed it. It was a really fun conversation. Thank you. And I really enjoyed your movie. [2:34:48] Crazy violent. I didn't expect that, but very exciting and very good. Thank you for taking me around the world and everywhere else. We time traveled. We talked about the whole world. We went into history. We went into the future. It was awesome. Well, congratulations to you and continued success. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

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