JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

[00:01] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! [00:11] Alright, Champ is here. Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Madurovite. [00:18] Wasn't it? [00:19] Wasn't it before that fight? I believe so. It was before that fight. [00:22] And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo. And everybody was like, that's crazy. He's going to go up all the way to 168, two more weight classes above that. That's nuts. [00:34] Everybody's got to shut the fuck up now. Yeah. You know when I say skills pay the bills. They do. They do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's like it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madrimov fight again recently. And Madrimov looked bigger. [00:52] He looked bigger than Canelo He was a big dude I wonder what that guy walks around at [00:59] Because it's not 154. No, not at all. He fought at 160 his last fight. Did he? Yeah. [01:05] Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was, like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for me. Because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans that just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced. [01:22] Well, you got it? I mean, you made it look, I want to say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. You know, it was such a clear victory. At one point when you were pity patting him and then firing off hard shots, I was like, oh my goodness, he's feeling it. Yeah, I was in my element. I was in a zone, mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well.

[01:50] you know, telling me I was going to get knocked out, I was too small. [01:54] I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, I'm going to show y'all what I'm really about, because this is not the first time that. [02:04] I didn't heard that. [02:05] Oh, he can't do this. He can't do that. I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime Because when Roy Jones was in his prime everybody was saying Roy Jones other than James Toney Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody Am I and I was like no He's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good If you saw them fight against everybody else you would say these guys are awesome for sure sure enough and [02:33] I've been dealing with that. [02:35] my whole career. [02:36] you know, [02:37] People getting so much praise. [02:41] After fighting a guy that I already knocked out. [02:44] If they beat him, oh, such and such beat this guy. But me, it's, oh, you're fighting tomato cans or you're fighting bums and things like this. So it's just like. It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys. Champions.

[03:14] to me was a Benavidez fight. I rewatched that again recently too. Especially that, because there's so much tension. There's so much shit talking and tension and so many emotions. And he can fight. He can fight. You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury, [03:32] And he fought no different... [03:35] from... [03:36] before or after the injury, he fought the same, you know, so... [03:41] that's another thing that they're going to say oh well he had got shot in a leg and if he didn't then this would have happened or that would have happened and [03:51] I'm like, he fought the same. Like, if you know boxing and you see him box, [03:56] Nothing changed from... [03:58] his boxing standpoint he wasn't a mover he wasn't this guy that used his legs uh as a defense or offense so i just take it as a grain of salt yeah i'm sure that injury sucked but he he fought the same and he fought well [04:15] I mean, he's a tough guy. He fought really well. [04:18] Took me 12 rounds. Yeah, listen. [04:22] That right uppercut in that 12th round to put him down, I was like, oh, my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is. There it is. You found him. Yeah, he had good head movement. Tough guy. He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches. So I was just like, all right, I got to switch it up. Well, also, he believed in himself. For sure, definitely. He came into that fight to win.

[04:48] Most definitely. Most definitely. It's... [04:51] It's beautiful to watch. You get what you deserve because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skill set. Yeah. You know, the people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did. But I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the sundae. Yeah, it was, man. [05:18] Even now, a lot of people saying, oh, well, Canelo's washed. He's old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. [05:24] Like, what are we talking about? You know, so I just I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on, you know, for everybody to already. [05:37] No... [05:38] what happened and then they try to [05:41] take what happened and make it a reason why it happened. Right. So I'll just be like, man, it's cool. That's boxing though. Right. That's sports in general. You're always going to have that. There's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit, but, [05:54] For a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficulty signing big fights. It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, oh, shit. I think he was like – [06:14] Thank you. [06:14] 37 or 36 when he fought trinidad and a lot of people are saying he's washed up it's over and when he knocked out trinidad everybody was like oh okay

[06:24] Yeah. [06:25] Yeah, I've been calling out. [06:27] Everybody since. [06:28] The beginning. [06:29] You know, they created a whole side of the street because of me. [06:35] You know, I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. [06:41] But now look at everybody now. All the promoters working together now. [06:46] Why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But, [06:50] It is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way. [06:56] I don't think too many other fighters can say that. [06:58] That's true. Yeah, it's a it's a dirty business, you know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoid certain fighters. It's it's always been that way, you know, and. [07:14] It's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many – like the big one for a long time was David Benavidez and Canelo. Everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you've got to think someone's avoiding somebody, and it's not Benavidez. [07:32] No, not at all. You know, I just think... [07:35] And [07:37] Canelo [07:39] In a sense, he know how big Benavidez is going to come in the ring. [07:42] You know, Benavidez is a great fighter. [07:45] But he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter. And I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I want to get in the ring with this guy that's going to be...

[07:57] massive come fight time and, uh, [08:01] I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this. [08:05] with my skills because Canelo's not [08:08] A big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career. Yeah. You know, and beating them with skill, you know, so you got to. [08:17] tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished. Absolutely. And five, seven going up [08:23] to [08:24] 175 and fighting these big guys and and actually winning and knocked out kovalov yeah i mean it was kovalov later in his career but he's still kovalov for sure and then having the courage to fight bival in his prime for sure i think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the benavidez fight the bival fight because i think after that fight he's like okay yeah this is a little big because bival not just big but he's got that russian style light on the feet in and out [08:54] In and out, in and out. Good boxer. It's a difficult style to handle. Yeah. You know? And, like, the only guy to beat Betterbeev was another beast. Yeah. [09:03] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+. [09:23] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know.

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[11:38] Yeah, so... [11:39] I think, you know, him knowing that and then I think the disrespect. [11:45] that he got from Benavidez had. [11:48] persuade him to go elsewhere. But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight [11:58] people that they wanted to fight. Right. You know, look at... [12:02] Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor. They never got that fight. So, and that's just one admitting, [12:10] So it's going to be like that. Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out. [12:16] the way it was supposed to. [12:18] And that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like this is like – all the bullshit. It's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit is gone. It's like now everybody has got to give you your just due because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean that was one of the all-time great performances because – [12:41] It was a Canelo that's – you can say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime. [12:46] And you just outboxed him. And you outboxed him. I mean, think about it. 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68. And you outboxed him. That's right. 35 first, right? That's right. That's crazy. That's crazy. Going up from 35 to [redacted address] you did it, too. It was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man.

[13:16] fight to watch because you know cannell's a dangerous guy he's a heavy puncher and he puts a lot of power into his punches he's he's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power but man he knows how to land it and when he lands it he puts people in a lot of trouble and [13:33] He just... [13:34] There was this one move that you were doing. [13:38] where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back. So he was going a counter, and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty. Trying to catch him in a counter. You know, Canelo is a great counter puncher. [13:54] You know, so you got to beat them to it. You got to counter to counter at times. Did that fight play out the way you thought it was going to play out? Yeah, most definitely. Exactly the way you thought it was. Most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know, um... [14:08] When... [14:09] I went to his fight. [14:11] against Berlanga and against the guy that's [14:17] on his team, I forgot his name, Munguia, Munguia. When I was with [14:22] Turkey, I said turkey. [14:23] He can't beat me. [14:25] just watching them from [14:28] 135. [14:30] to now, like live. [14:33] Looking at him, I'm just like, I can beat this dude. My confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight... [14:40] in Saudi Arabia, I was like... [14:44] Yeah, he can't fight like that against me, which he didn't.

[14:47] which he definitely rose his game, but... [14:51] I just believed in myself that much that... [14:54] Nothing was going to stop me from getting that victory that night. The fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under motivated. Yeah. It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically. Like when you look at him. [15:09] He wasn't, you know, and it happens, you know. [15:13] That's why I always train like [15:15] this is the toughest fight of my career because it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that – [15:23] Nobody know about right right right right them be the [15:27] the ones that sneak up on you and you know you got to be ready for him but he didn't come to fight [15:33] He moved the whole fight, and Canelo was frustrated, and he was just like, ah, man, this dude didn't come to do anything. Right. He came to survive. Yeah, so I could see where he was frustrated at. Yeah. Well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either, right? Right. So he probably said, listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact. Right. [15:58] and just never get hit real good. Yeah. [16:02] It's a... [16:04] It's fascinating now because [16:06] Before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. [16:14] And it's interesting how that changes, how people now look at your body. And then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, Errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter.

[16:26] A lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had and maybe he wasn't as good as we thought. [16:34] but [16:36] now with the Canelo victory, you're in this [16:41] rare air of you know mentioned as one of the greatest of all time yeah you know there's a handful of guys there is no it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time [16:51] Because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson. They throw Floyd in the mix, prime time Roy Jones. There's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time. But you are now in that conversation. That's got to be nice. It is beautiful. It is beautiful. [17:05] You know, especially all the hard work that I didn't put in. [17:10] to be here at that. [17:12] pinnacle of the sport you know since i was seven years old i've been boxing i've been fighting i've [17:22] when people compare me to like [17:24] Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard comparing me to [17:30] who will win, who will win. That just let me know that I did my job well. [17:35] in the sport. [17:36] Oh, you absolutely did. Now, you definitely done done? It's over with. It's definitely over? Yeah. I don't got nothing. So I told a couple of my close friends, I said, okay, since 2014, I [17:51] I've been fighting for something. [17:53] a title. I won my first title [17:56] in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles, Undisputed,

[18:02] titles undisputed undisputed and [18:05] titles, Undisputed, like just everything that I've been fighting for. [18:10] Now and I just come back. [18:12] And it's just like, all right, what's the motivation? Just money? [18:15] you know like alright so what [18:17] What is on top of that? [18:19] You know, because my... [18:21] My thing was, [18:22] The money going to come. [18:24] No, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted to do. [18:30] my legacy to be when I finished boxing. [18:35] I want to be [18:37] remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time. [18:40] You know, and I think I did that. [18:43] You know, so now it's like... [18:46] This last fight that I had... [18:50] The height of it. [18:51] There's no better finish than that to me. [18:54] Yeah. What was on the line [18:57] coming from where I came from, all the odds that was stacked against me. [19:02] Thank you. [19:02] all the things that I had to go through and camp, [19:06] to get to that fight [19:07] You know, it was just like, [19:09] Man. [19:10] You did everything right. So what can top that? I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have with all your championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in undefeated and beat Canelo, another all-time great. I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career.

[19:34] It's pretty dope. For sure. And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice. It's beautiful because... [19:45] Nobody knows what us fighters adore. [19:48] to [19:50] get to the point to entertain [19:52] the fans. You know, we go through a lot. [19:55] You know, we put our body through a lot. [19:57] And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where [20:03] we can't take care of ourself. [20:06] They don't care about us. [20:07] They're going to say, oh, well, he was once a good champion and – [20:11] We go to the fights. You see a lot of old fighters. [20:14] showing up to the fights and people just walk past them yeah you know they on to the next oh let's see the young fighter you know and it's like [20:23] They use you up till you have nothing left. [20:26] then they forget about you. Yeah. You know, so it's very critical for... [20:31] these fighters to think about their health first because [20:35] Once it's over with, it's over with. And you can't get your health back. [20:40] You can always get money elsewhere, but... [20:43] Once you came, [20:45] Your mind is messed up? Yeah. [20:47] It's over with. [20:48] That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see too, to see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out. [21:01] On top. [21:02] And done. Yeah. [21:03] And so many fighters have said that. And then a couple of years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting. They go, man, I think I got one more in me. And then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's the real problem. Yeah.

[21:17] it's always going to be that [21:19] you know. [21:21] I got another one in me. I got another one in me. Because they missed that [21:27] Bài hát [21:28] of all the fans chanting their name and everybody, you know, [21:33] cameras, lights, and you know, [21:37] They miss it. [21:39] You know, but I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that. Really? Yeah, I can handle it. Just pay me and I go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family. You know, I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention. How come? [21:56] Because that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it. [22:01] to be famous. [22:03] I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. [22:09] be under the radar. I do like that. You show up by yourself. But one time you showed up at one of the UFCs and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar and they put it on the fucking screen. And I didn't catch it because I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are you guys out of your fuck? You don't know who Terrence Crawford is and you're in combat sports. This is crazy. I think they did that on purpose. No, no way. No way. No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron [22:39] one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance. Yeah, I was sitting next to that. [22:45] to everybody and I was like, [22:47] Did they really just do that? No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. Yeah. It was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. Yeah.

[23:01] I don't know who it was. Right. I didn't even want to know. I'd yell at him. For sure. For sure. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats. And you get 20% off your first grocery order with the code NEWALDI26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. [23:31] Over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28. Terms apply. See app for details. But that's – you roll very low key. Like you don't show up with an entourage. A lot of times you're just by yourself. Yeah. And that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved. Yeah. [23:51] Yeah, people would be so, like, surprised. [23:53] that. [23:54] you [23:55] You know, they'll see me in the airport. They'll be like... [23:58] You by yourself? Oh, yeah. That's like... [24:01] Man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage. That's just a bill. You got to pay all them people to be around you. That's true, too. I'm chillin'. [24:14] Yeah, I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself. Yeah, I mean... [24:19] It's another good example for young fighters to realize like at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's – it's very temporary. It's very fleeting. It goes away. Legacy.

[24:33] Legacy and... [24:35] the glory of your accomplishments that stays forever and the respect of people [24:41] In boxing. Really, no. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's what it's all about. And you've got that. [24:47] Now everybody has to shut the fuck up. Yeah, they do. Everybody has to shut the fuck up. Even the people that said that, oh, Canelo, stop. You were the same people saying Canelo was going to stop him. You're the same people that saying Errol Spence was going to stop me. The same people that saying Madrimoff was going to stop me. Yep. And so forth. [25:05] It just got to the point where... [25:07] They just, they can't, they got to accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know, and he's just been proving me wrong. [25:16] time after time is like [25:18] Let me just give them his flowers. Yes. You know? That's beautiful. [25:22] And for young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it, does it perfectly and does it in a way that is very unusual. Because like you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know, and like that – [25:42] God, that is such an underrated skill. It's so funny. One of the times you were in here, you were telling me that your coach told you to stop doing that. Yeah. He was like, you need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way. [25:56] Instead of [25:57] Switching to Southpaw. I was just like, all right. [26:00] Switch southpaw again. Then it was just like he was like, all right, well, you're gonna do that. We're gonna train like that. I was like, all right, let's train like it. I'm gonna keep switching because it just came so natural. Yeah, I'll be in there. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I just switched like.

[26:14] and think. [26:15] Yes. [26:19] I win and I win. He goes, all right, we're going to fight like – we're going to train like that. Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing if you can do it because you have to recalibrate where everything is coming from every time you switch. Different angles, all that. In MMA, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of MMA, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching because it hides combinations. It hides different techniques. [26:49] so many different things you could do in mma off a switch because you're switching and kicking you're switching and punching you're kicking and then now you're in southpaw and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands it's like things are there's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things and if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot it could fuck you up inside the cage yeah because some people they have better [27:14] chances on one side than the other. [27:17] You know, and then when you switch on them, it's like, oh, I hate fighting Southpaws. Right. You know, and just do something to their brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way. [27:28] Everything looks so weird when all of a sudden the jab's on the right side and then your brain has to like – [27:36] You got to worry about the hook now instead of the straight. Everything's different. Yeah. Yeah. It's just – I mean I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now because I think it's –

[27:52] The conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's Southpaw or Orthodox. Stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler. But for the most part, stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. [28:05] I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance. But I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up. Yes, always. [28:13] you know, beneficial. [28:16] If... [28:17] you can have it and not need it, then the need it and the ain't got it. Yes. You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it. Yes. You know, and... [28:29] That's like me. I got it all. [28:32] Do you think you gotta train people when you're done? I'll be training a little bit I'll be helping out at the gym But my patience ain't there yet [28:42] I get frustrated and... [28:45] I have to remember, like my coach, Bomek, say, [28:48] Everybody's not you, bud. [28:50] Yeah, everybody don't adapt like you. Everybody [28:54] not as athletic like you are. [28:56] You know, so you can't [28:58] be frustrated if they not getting something. Right. Like, [29:03] as fast as you get. And you've been doing this since you was seven. Some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you got to give them grace, you know, and take your time with them. And some of them, you know, they flat-footed and you just got to – [29:17] train them in today's style. Everybody not going to have your style. [29:21] So,

[29:22] when he explained that to me, I was just like, "Hey, you're right." You know, let me back up a little bit and just [29:29] Tell them what I see. [29:31] Yeah. You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be. Being a version of you. Yeah. Yeah. That's got to be difficult. Right. Because everybody does have a different style. [29:42] And, you know, you're never going to convince some fighters to fight your way. Mm-hmm. [29:48] Yeah. [29:49] But – [29:49] And the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like there's a lot of great fighters like Freddie Roach that had some boxing matches but was never like an elite boxer but still was a great coach. Yeah. [30:04] But to have an elite fighter... [30:06] to be a coach, it's like there's an element of that. First of all, there's an element from the young guy coming up, like you want to impress. You got Terrence Crawford in your corner. You want to impress him. [30:18] Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job, and he became a great trainer. There's a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like – [30:24] I always wonder because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young – there's so much small, minutiae, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on that would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges. [30:41] Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them. [30:44] Okay. [30:45] on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the bag or when they hitting the mitts. [30:49] shadow boxing, just little details. [30:52] You know, I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they

[30:56] Look to the corner and they hit the back. Yeah, they get fired up. You can see they're trying to get my attention. I come over there. [31:04] Then give them some little wisdom. [31:06] You know, and they're appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. [31:12] You know, my son wrestling next door, and they over here boxing, and I'm both... [31:18] One side and the other side. Your son just won a wrestling title. Yeah, he just won a state as a freshman. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. That's so amazing. [31:28] What does he want to do? He want to go D1. Yeah? He told me that. [31:34] Saturday after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said that. [31:41] I want to go to the Olympics. Wow. I said, you want to? [31:44] I said, what kind of state is that? I said, you're going to go. [31:49] I said, you got to have it in your mind. You're going. [31:52] You can't say you want to go. You got to say, I'm going to the Olympics. That way, you know, you're already programming it. [31:59] you know, for the future. How did you learn that mentality? [32:03] Man, been doubted my whole life. [32:06] you know, been doubted my whole life. [32:08] My coach, Mids Minor, used to always say, Lottie Dottie, we fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet. [32:15] You know, and I just carried that on my shoulders like [32:19] Thank you. [32:20] Anybody you put in front of me, they ain't fought me yet, so you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. [32:25] So just like my son, like, hey,

[32:27] You got to have that confidence that [32:29] Whatever you say you want to do, you're going to go out and do it, but you got to put the work there first. [32:35] So in that sense, doubters give you fuel. Oh, yeah. [32:39] Oh, yeah. It's a lot of people like that. A lot of people like that. They live off the haters. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They fuel me up. And then especially when it's crazy because like Majimov and Canelo, they were so respectful. Yeah. [32:52] You know, and I respect them. [32:55] You know, I've been a fan of Majumov, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and learning about him and hearing about him. And I've always been a fan of Canelo, like, since... [33:09] I can remember. [33:10] You know, so... [33:11] I didn't have that like... [33:13] Killer like mine like heart in my heart. I want to beat them but like I [33:19] My other fights, I was like, man, I want to knock this dude out. Like Benavidez. Yeah. I wanted to knock him out. So, like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage. Like, this dude talking shit. Like, he never, they never got under my skin. It was, like, all respectful. So, it was like, I want to whoop their ass, but. [33:37] I didn't want to like inflate. [33:40] Like pain, like I want to like knock him out. There was one fighter you fought at 140. His name is escaping me. [33:46] But you stopped him in the fifth. Yes. Yeah, I wanted to knock him off. Oh, boy. Yeah. And I was so mad. Like, when you watch that fight. [33:55] You know, I miss like... [33:57] When they stopped it, I missed like two crazy hooks. And I just was like, man, why couldn't I land him? Like he would have went to sleep.

[34:03] You weren't happy, we just stopped at him. Yeah, I wanted to put him to sleep. [34:09] You know, it's... [34:10] It's a sport, and it is what it is, and I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it. [34:18] you know, years down the line. Yeah. [34:21] Well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you're legitimately putting your life on the line. Yeah. And a lot of people don't understand that until something happens. Right. [34:33] You know, us boxers. [34:36] A lot of boxers have Dodd in that ring. A lot of boxers have... [34:40] winning the ring one way, [34:42] and left it a different way. Yes. You know, so when... [34:47] A lot of fans... [34:48] They criticize boxers for doing [34:53] what the sport is for. [34:55] And that's boxing. [34:57] You know... [34:58] Us boxers, like, you're not even here getting your brains beat out. So what you... [35:05] considered boring. [35:07] we consider us doing what the sport is meant. [35:11] to do is box. Right. You know, and [35:16] I think [35:17] a lot of fans [35:19] Thank you. [35:20] Don't give a lot of fighters. They just do for boxing. [35:24] you know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers. Yes. You know, they want to see people – [35:33] bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know, but they're not thinking about the aftermath and the ather effects of them fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, uh,

[35:44] piss and blood and things like that. Like your body is not meant to be beyond like that. [35:52] They just looking at, oh, well, I'll pay this money. Y'all going to go in there and kill each other. You know, and I think that's wrong. Yeah, well, you're always going to have morons in this world. You're always going to have casuals. You're always going to have people that don't appreciate what they're saying. But, like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Tiafema that last fight, like, that was art. That was art. That sneaky jab where it was, like, half speed and then popping him with the jab. And you can see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it. [36:22] It was beautiful. It barely got hit. It was beautiful. [36:28] And things like that. [36:30] You know, you see... [36:31] to [36:32] high caliber fighters. [36:35] But you just see one just... [36:37] On a different level because of his boxing IQ. [36:41] Not because Teofimo didn't belong in the ring with him. It's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability... [36:50] is up here. Yes. You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give T.L. Fimo the opportunity to land a good shot. [37:00] and change the [37:02] the outcome of the fight. [37:04] One shot. I don't care who you is in a good [37:08] in the right spot at the right moment. [37:10] Anybody can get knocked out. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is.

[37:40] Load the grill and let Traeger handle the rest. Grilled steak, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [37:54] Let's talk about Service Titan. Over 10,000 contractors already run their businesses on Service Titan. Now they're building an AI trained on real trades workflows. This isn't generic AI. This is AI built specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls, helping run your back office, and growing your revenue automatically. [38:24] AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. Learn more at servicetitan.ai. [38:34] Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean... [38:37] the human brain is not designed to get punched. Right. It's just not designed that way, especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Tiofimo, Tiofimo can crack. He's a big dude, and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever, where you see one world champion challenging another world champion. For sure. I mean, it was art. To me, every moment of that fight, like up until the 12th round, I was just like, there was multiple times I was like, oh! [39:07] It was just beautiful. I love watching a guy at the pinnacle, watching a guy where everybody else has got to go, wow, I didn't think it was going to go like this. Because Tia Fimo is a super aggressive guy, beat Lomachenko, he's got a nasty jab, throws big power in his punches, he's tough as hell. A lot of people are like, this is going to be a tough fight.

[39:30] And Shakur just, and he didn't run. He stood right in front of him. That's the other thing. He wasn't getting hit and he was right in front of him. I mean, that was art. That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And, um, [39:44] I'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight because – [39:51] That's a, Shakur's a different animal. Brian looked amazing in that fight. I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was a beautiful fight to watch. [40:02] But that's an interesting fight. I like that fight. Shakur and him, I like that fight a lot. [40:08] Because Shakur is a different animal. You're dealing with a whole different kind of skill set. [40:13] Yes, Shakur. Listen, I went down to camp before he fought TF Emo and I seen his focus in... [40:23] Amen. [40:24] the level of, you know, [40:27] intense training he was doing. [40:30] And I said, I don't know it all, but I know Shakur gonna whoop Teofimo's eyes. [40:36] I tweeted that way before the fight, you know, and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in his fight for what it was. I don't think Barrios came to fight. [40:48] you know. [40:49] Ryan was boxing great. [40:51] You know, the jab was working, the overhand right was working, and... [40:57] He looks out. [40:59] Thank you.

[41:00] I mean, at the end, I said, you see my jab? I said, man, it was working. That jab was beautiful because we're not used to seeing Ryan's jab. Right. Or his right hand. Or boxing, for that matter. He was boxing. Beautiful. Beautiful. And I commend him on that. Like, he... [41:20] He aced it. [41:21] You know, but when it comes to Shakur, Shakur is not a Barrios. You know, Shakur got a jab. Shakur got head movement. Shakur got defense. Shakur knows range. Shakur have good legs. So. [41:39] I look at that fight like it's not going to be as... [41:44] competitive fight like everybody think because if ryan get careless he's going to get countered all day [41:50] If he gets careless. I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios. He's got to. Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot, but I mean, that's not a knock. That's just like if you had it, everybody should rely on that. That speed is nuts. Shakur's a different animal. That's what I was saying. Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different though, right? [42:14] A lot of people thought Devin Haney was going to give him real problems. When he dropped Devin early with a left hook, everybody was like, oh. [42:21] This is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything. They know each other. [42:30] far too well.

[42:32] I think [42:33] him and Devin fought each other the most, out of all of them. You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that they fought. But, [42:46] I just think [42:47] him and Devin... [42:50] the [42:51] The history of it. Devin came in there. [42:54] overconfident. [42:56] Ryan, you know, being juiced up. [43:01] you know, added a little whatever it is. But, you know, you can't take away from him landing the punches that he was landing. You can't take away from the performance that, you know, [43:14] He was doing, but... [43:18] When you on steroids, that add to... [43:21] It definitely adds something. What was he? What did he get popped for? Do you remember? I don't even know. I just know. Jamie, find out what he got popped for. It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it doesn't, it wouldn't even matter. It's such a small level. The problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system. And that's one of the reasons why the UFC banned IVs. [43:46] Because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs. I don't know what you're supposed to put in the IV, but there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance-enhancing drugs, which is why at UFC you have to hydrate.

[44:05] This is drug-free sports policy and USADA's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV. [44:12] And when you use an IV, which I don't know. Were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate? I don't know. When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still – that – [44:30] What did he test positive for? Lost? I miss which fighter you're talking about. Ryan Garcia. Oh, that's right. Ryan Garcia, when he fought Devin Haney, the fight got overturned, right? It was a no contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory, one of his best victories ever. Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him how many times? A few. Yeah, a few times. He looked fucking great in that fight. Yeah, he did. [45:00] off. [45:00] terrain. [45:01] Osterine, yeah. [45:03] Okay. I think... [45:05] You know... [45:08] Both of those fights is great fights for Ryan. [45:11] Ryan is in a great position right now. Oh, yeah. You know, he got the rollie. [45:16] Unification fight. He lost to Roley. He got that fight that he can try to avenge in a unification fight. Roley looked great in that fight. He got Devin. [45:28] in a unification fight. [45:30] He got Shakur in a... [45:34] spectacular fight. So Ryan's in a great position right now. If Javante comes back, he's got that rematch. I don't think Javante is going to.

[45:43] fight him without having those type of claws the rehydration claws yeah bring them down and you got to do this and you got to do that so that's crazy those those clauses are crazy you can't weigh more than x fuck off with that that's like with me and canelo i'm like man listen i'm challenging you yeah you can weigh whatever you want i don't want no excuses you know i i'm [46:07] Hey, it is what it is. All you got to do is weigh 168. [46:11] Yeah. You know, the day before that is what it is. Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do. Yeah. Yeah. That's where they got it from. Yeah. That's where they got it from. You know, the thing is, these guys see that big number. They see those purses and they go, oh, I can fight good. Yeah, I'll just get I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. [46:33] It's just not smart. Yeah, your body's not going to react when it's not fully hydrated. No, not chance. It's the worst way to fight. You know, I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut? [46:50] The most I ever had to come for probably like [46:53] 25. Whew, that's a lot. What weight was that, 35 or 40? 47. 47, really? Yeah. Wow. [47:01] My last fight was Spence. [47:03] And when did you start your cut? A month. Months out? Yeah, months out. So the week of the fight, what were you at? [47:11] ... [47:12] Paralyte one

[47:15] 52 54. Oh, okay. That's very good. That's very reasonable. See MMA fighters do in a fuck. They were them last couple of pounds is tough. Yeah, them last couple of pounds of tough and I'm just new and [47:28] that it was over with. [47:30] I knew it was over with. [47:32] But... [47:33] Thank you. [47:34] The heart is cut. [47:36] Ever was when I was at 135. [47:39] That was like... [47:41] Killing me. What were you walking around at back then? [47:44] probably like [47:46] In the 50s. Mm-hmm. [47:49] by 55. [47:51] And so would you just lower your calories in camp? Everything. I've got to change my whole diet. And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting 35? [48:05] I don't even remember. Man, I was cutting like probably like... [48:12] seven pounds [48:14] The week of the fight. See, that... In the MMA world, that's nothing. These guys are cutting crazy. Because they wait to the last minute. I know a lot of MMA fighters... Yeah, they just dehydrate themselves. Yeah, they wait to the last minute. But mine... [48:28] I got to start. [48:30] gradually because I never want to go in there [48:33] and just like tank. Right. So I got to change my eating habits [48:38] up months, like two months in advance. That way I can get my body used to being lighter and, you know, performing at that weight class. Because if not, you know, you doing more hurting yourself than good.

[48:53] because [48:54] You taking all the... [48:56] the fluid out of your brain. Exactly. You know, and [49:00] Yeah, I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that. And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185, and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas. I mean, that's 40 fucking pounds. I think that's why I got – [49:20] when I fought Gamboa. [49:26] when I got hurt. [49:27] you know, in a ninth ground. But I stopped him in the ninth round, but that was-- [49:32] Part of that. Boom. Caught me with a clean shot. Boom. I like, oh, shit. You know, until this day. [49:42] That's the only fight. [49:44] that [49:45] I got hurt like that ever. You know, a lot of people thought Mean Machine dropped me, Mean Machine hurt me. I didn't got, Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that, Gamboa. Like, my whole leg locked up, and I was just like, man, I got to grab this dude. [50:01] And you think the weight cut had a lot to do with that? Yeah. Definitely. What weight was that at? 135. Yeah, 135. You're a big guy, man. That's a lot of weight to cut. [50:12] Yeah. That's the most – [50:15] problematic part of MMA for sure. I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do. It was crazy though, because...

[50:28] I've always been skinny. You know, a lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully. He's this, he's that. And it's like, bro... [50:36] I came from 132. [50:39] I wasn't at, you know, you see a lot of these fighters. [50:44] They in the amateurs. Like Sean Porter, he was at 165, then he went to 147. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier, and then they dropped weight. I was at 132, and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional. And I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out once I start, you know, working out more and doing a little strength and condition. And I just started, my body started filling out. [51:14] The way... [51:15] that I was at with Canelo, that's the... [51:18] most comfortable is time of my career to be able to, [51:24] eat whatever I want not focus on weight just did you feel much better in the ring because of that I did I [51:30] I did because that was the only time that [51:33] I never, like, I had to eat to keep my weight on me. Wow. And it's like... [51:40] And I'm not used to doing that. Like, I'm used to, you know. Starving. We got portions. It's like they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know. But so that was the one camp that. [51:54] It was like... [51:55] Thank you. [51:56] weight was an issue. Do you have a nutritionist in camp? Yes. And so how do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs, it's all weighed out? All of that. Yeah. And then they weigh you, check you, make your body fat. They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.

[52:14] What did you weigh like when you got into the ring? [52:17] I think I was like 72. Okay. [52:21] It's just a few pounds. Yeah. Nothing. [52:24] Yeah. I didn't weigh a couple of pounds. The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling. [52:33] And it plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy. That's why a lot of guys do it. It's also MMA is very flawed. [52:42] And one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes. There's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps. [52:49] like between 205 and... [52:52] The next weight class is heavyweight. So it's 205 to 265. 185, the next weight class is 205. That's 20 pounds. [53:02] That's nuts. Yeah. 170 to 185. 15 fucking pounds is a lot. A lot. That's a lot. Seven pounds is a lot. 55 to 70. Seven pounds is a lot. A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40. That's only seven pounds. Right. That's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut. Right. [53:21] And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. [53:27] Is this five pounds? Oh, that matters. Yes, it matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155. They can't make the weight. [53:37] And then they're too small for 170. Yes. Because at 170, you've got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210, and they're getting to 170, and they're jacked. I know somebody that was coming out from.

[53:49] 230. [53:51] Fighting at 165. Oh, my God. Who was that? I ain't going to say his name. Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw. 230. Anthony Rumble Johnson was 230, and he was fighting at 170. I ran into Rumble once. Rest in peace. [54:08] He died a few years back. [54:09] I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170, and he was in between fights, and I ran into him at the hotel, and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big. I couldn't – I go, what do you weigh? Yeah. And he said 230. I'm like, dude, that's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds? Yeah. But it was killing him. It was killing him, like literally to the brink of death the day before a fight. [54:35] That's nuts. That doesn't make any sense. And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there. Yeah. Yeah. [54:42] Thank you. [54:43] Not smart. No. Not at all. I think for MMA, they really need to recognize this, that one of the things that's going to stop weight clots – [54:52] is give people more weight classes, give people more options. This idea of only having eight champions, I think, in MMA is very, very limiting. It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win championship after championship. In MMA, if you win two belts, that's crazy. [55:10] That's the only thing anybody's ever done. Because the weight classes is so far apart. Exactly. Exactly. [55:14] The only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three. You know, Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around like 240.

[55:25] Which is crazy because he used to fight at 185. [55:28] It's nuts. [55:30] If they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights. We'd have less extreme weight cutting. We'd have healthier fighters. Just more champions is better. There's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's not a weight class for them. If there's a 20-pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass. [56:00] And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that, [56:04] It's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is. It just – they don't have a chance. [56:15] It sucks. It does. It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Well, I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of MMA. Any sport. Any sport. But in boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Jerry McClellan used to do it. He got real big in between fights, real big. But that cost him in the Nigel Benn fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. [56:45] why he's so hurt right now. [56:49] And that fucked Roy up too because back at the time that was his biggest rival was Gerald. And Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me.

[56:59] Yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that... [57:04] that weight and you don't understand you losing that fluid in the back of your brain [57:09] And it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating. It's tough. It's tough. Yeah. It's... [57:22] But, I mean, boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately or fortunately, the UFC dominates MMA. And they only have eight weight classes, so everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody – the UFC has a heavyweight limit. [57:40] Isn't that crazy that is? Isn't that stupid? It's stupid, right? It definitely is. Talk to these people. I'm just now learning about that. You didn't know? 265. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285. Yeah. Imagine he's got to dehydrate himself. He's got to lose 20 fucking pounds. [57:58] Just to make the weight class, that's retarded. That doesn't make any sense at all. At all. At all. It's the heavyweight. It's the heaviest weight we can go. Remember Valuyev when he was fighting Evander Holyfield? It was huge. God! He had to be over 300 pounds. He was a literal giant. An actual giant. [58:16] Yeah. [58:17] So I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about. Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't they don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy. Well, we got a petition. Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So I understand why they don't want to listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in the air. I think it.

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[1:00:05] If you've been operating for at least a year and are earning at least $20,000 a month in revenue... [1:00:09] Apply now for up to $500,000 in same-day business funding at cardiff.co.rogan. [1:00:16] Again, that's cardiff.co slash rogan. Cardiff. Borrow better. [1:00:22] These combat sports, they gotta come from the fighters. [1:00:26] You know, [1:00:27] Just like boxing, I think if the... [1:00:30] If the fighters come together... [1:00:32] They can make anything happen. [1:00:34] The fighters don't understand... [1:00:37] the level of power that they carry because they think, oh, since they cutting a check, they got the power. Right. You know, but they can't cut the check without us. [1:00:46] You know, but... [1:00:48] It's the fighters that need the money that makes. [1:00:52] it hard. Right. Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they're like, well, you can do that. I got to provide for my family. You can take... [1:01:06] a chance of [1:01:09] going at the organization for a year or however long it's going to last but who's going to pay my bills right who's going to put food on my family table while we're doing this while we're making a stand so it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established yes you know and i think that's where you know the the seesaw effect happens with with boxing and

[1:01:39] the UFC. It's really, I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in MMA, UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed, and he winds up leaving and goes to the PFL, but nobody's watching. [1:01:55] Nobody watches. [1:01:56] Nobody cares. [1:01:57] He knocked out some dude in the PFL, and nobody cared. Is he making more money? Yes. He cares. He cares. Well, that's why he did it. Yeah, that's all that matters. He got a great deal with the PFL, and then he got to box. Box Tyson Fury, box Anthony Joshua. Doing well. Doing well. Much, much more money, for sure. Doing well. Which is good, but... [1:02:19] The fortunate and unfortunate. Fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed. They really know how to do it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They get the most asses in the seats. Every pay-per-view sells well. When there's a UFC pay-per-view, people line up to see it. There's a bunch of stars in the UFC. But unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows where they are. [1:02:49] So if they want to come to the UFC, they have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an – like if you're going from – [1:02:56] small promotions in boxing and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight and you're in or you're in you know golden boy promotions you would imagine now I'm getting paid more money more people are watching me.

[1:03:09] But it's not the case. Like these other organizations like the PFL have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all. [1:03:16] Because everybody wants to fight in the UFC. It's not a monopoly because there is other options. There's One FC. There's PFL. There's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world. But the reality is it's like the NFL or like Q-Tips. It's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch the XFL. Do people watch it? I don't know. But it's not the Super Bowl. There's one big organization. That's the NFL. [1:03:46] One big MMA organization, that's the UFC. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. [1:03:55] So it's very difficult for those guys to – [1:03:58] Hold out for more money. [1:04:00] It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for. Right. [1:04:04] You know, that's what you got to ask yourself. [1:04:06] Is you doing it for? [1:04:09] Fame. [1:04:11] is you doing it for [1:04:13] to [1:04:14] provide stability for your family. [1:04:17] is it [1:04:18] I need money. [1:04:20] Like what is legacy? Yeah, yeah, definitely legacy. For the greats of the greats legacy is the primary focus almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus because otherwise you never achieve greatness. If you're just thinking about money, I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that like the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog period.

[1:04:46] That's why I asked, what is you doing it for? Because... [1:04:49] and Gano, you know, he... [1:04:51] He's already famous, right? He probably like, okay, well, yes, if [1:04:55] Y'all gonna pay me X amount over here and they only gonna pay me this? [1:05:00] then [1:05:01] It makes sense. [1:05:02] business sense there, go over here. Yes. You know, and that's just like, [1:05:07] Connor Barron [1:05:09] He just signed with Zufa. And a lot of people [1:05:14] was saying he's disloyal and Eddie Hearns now was loyal to him and this and that and this. He's getting 15 million for his next life. I'm like, man, what is people talking about? [1:05:25] It's just business. It ain't personal with with them, I bet. I said, Connor Ben did what was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional companies going to do what's best for them and a business. If a fighter that they sign. [1:05:41] lose probably two straight, they get to cut them. [1:05:44] No questions asked. [1:05:46] Why? Because now they waste their money, they feel. [1:05:49] They don't care about that person's family. They don't care about that person's relationship with them. [1:05:54] They're not... [1:05:55] going in there with a heart [1:05:58] Like, oh, man, like you a good buddy. They're like, ah, sorry, it's just business. Cut you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a manager or anybody else, it's all you disloyal, you this, you that. I'm like... [1:06:12] Make it make sense. It doesn't make any sense in boxing because in boxing, there's so many promoters. There's so many different people. Eddie Hearns, Bob Arum. There's so many different promoters. Don King. There's so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing is that there's a lot of competition, and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side. And there's cross-promotion. There's no cross-promotion in MMA. It doesn't exist. Right.

[1:06:39] They tried it a little bit in the early days. They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for Pride, and they brought some Pride fighters over into the UFC. But... [1:06:49] They don't do that anymore. That was the early days because the sport wasn't big back then. [1:06:54] They were just trying to get big names and they were trying to work a promotional deal. But Japanese, man, they're clever. Like when they sold them Pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters. Turn out all the contracts were bullshit. None of them were valid. They basically bought Pride for – I think they spent $65 million and they got a library. They just got a video library. UFC did? Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fedor. Fedor was the big dog. [1:07:24] Kicking everybody's legs, I remember. Fucking everybody up, slamming them, armbarring them, fucking people up, standing. He was complete. And he was at the same time where Cain Velasquez was in his prime. And that was the fight that they tried to put together. But the Russians... [1:07:42] Because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore because the contracts at Pride were all bullshit. They had a deal with these Russian gangsters. And these Russian gangsters were like – they wanted a piece of the promotion. They wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing. It got very contentious. The UFC had to up their security. It got sketchy. It got sketchy. They're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes.

[1:08:12] We were robbed of one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport. [1:08:17] And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, God, we've got to see that happen. For a while it was Floyd and Manny, right? For a while. And after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny, it took a little of the shine off of that. [1:08:35] And then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder and [1:08:39] Now they're going to do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy. You're going to watch it, though. I'm going to watch it. Fuck you, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch him fight Mike. I think that's crazy. [1:08:49] He's going to have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Mike is so much bigger than him. [1:08:56] He's so much bigger than him. He's not going to land a fist on Mayweather. [1:09:01] Right. [1:09:02] It's not after his last performance. Yeah. I think Tyson just needs to get... What do you think was going on with that, the last one? [1:09:10] It looked a little bit like sparring. Yeah, I don't know. I think it was scripted. Yeah. I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves. And, like, you could just... It was taking all that he could not to, like, hit him. He... It was just like... [1:09:25] It's heartbreaking to see an icon go out like that. Yeah. You know, and... [1:09:32] But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old. Yeah, but still, like... [1:09:37] He shouldn't have been in there [1:09:39] At all. You know, I think it's other ways. Yeah. You know, it's other ways for... But what did he get? He got at least 20, right? Yeah, but still, I think... But I think he needed that money. Yeah, but with all his connections and things like that, I think people...

[1:09:56] could have put him in the right position to make some money. If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest, but you know how it is. When there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interest, but there's always lawsuits later on. You find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved. [1:10:18] You know, unfortunately, especially if you're not. [1:10:20] business-minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters concentrate on fighting. Mm-hmm. [1:10:27] To be business minded, that's a giant distraction. You got to pay attention to all this other shit. On top of that, it's generally not how they think. Right. You know? [1:10:36] I mean, [1:10:38] Look at Floyd. Like Floyd spends money like it's a tap, like he's got a tap, just like unlimited amount of money. Money is just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much if not more money than any boxer ever. [1:10:54] Like there's all these lawsuits like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and owes money on that. And it's like and then he's got to come out of retirement. [1:11:03] Yeah, that's tough. [1:11:05] Yeah. That's tough. I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd lived. Yes. I think he can't [1:11:11] Fathom to just [1:11:13] live a modest lifestyle it's like he gotta be lavish right he's got to have those videos where he shows you all the watches where he opens the case up you know all the money he got yeah show that he got a million dollars in his backpack yeah you know he got the latest watch and the latest car and look what i just bought and when you get into latest watches and latest cars you get into that shit like boy that money goes quick yeah bugatti's are like three million there's watches

[1:11:43] $5 million. That's crazy. So you buy a watch and a car, you're down $10. That's nuts. [1:11:50] That's nuts. Crazy. I remember Iran Barkley was talking about that. Iran Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these professional athletes. And everybody was getting diamond-crusted chains and this and that. And he was keeping up with these people. Like, you got to keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself, like, draining all of his money. [1:12:11] He was talking about it like that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money. [1:12:16] Mm-hmm. [1:12:17] They trying to keep up. Yeah, which I thought was funny when I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ochocinco. He was talking about it. He was wearing fake jewelry. But who would know? [1:12:30] What's that? Who would know? No one would know. Exactly. It's like when they look at him, like. Flying economy. He was sleeping at the stadium. Like, so he didn't have to pay for a department. So smart. Yeah. So clever, you know. [1:12:44] But that's a guy like preparing. Nobody's going to question him. Exactly. Oh, man, this NFL star, he got money. Yeah. So we're not going to question if his diamond is real or not. Well, you really can't tell. Right. You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on. That's why they say we got these diamond testers. [1:13:03] You want to test your diamonds now. [1:13:06] Come on now. Yeah. It's just all illusion anyway. Do you fuck around with any of that stuff? I got a jury, but I'm not paying all that money for no jury.

[1:13:15] Yeah. Now we can get some sponsorships. Yes. But me... [1:13:20] keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry. Nah, that ain't me. [1:13:25] It's just not smart. Yeah. And you don't get out of it what it costs. Like if you think about how much blood, sweat, what? [1:13:33] Sometimes you do. What do you get? Now, if you buy it from the factory. Now, if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you know, you might get some money back from it. You can flip it. Yeah, that's true. Now, buzz downs, no. But if you get it from the actual store, the protect store, the Rolex store. That's true. Them type of... [1:13:56] Keep the box and the papers. Yeah. It's worth more money. Then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that, no. You don't never see a billionaire with no chain. No. You see it with a good watch though. Yeah. [1:14:10] Deal with a good watch. Yeah, that's true. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth. [1:14:20] You know, competing with all those other, getting your own private jet, all that stuff. It's like, ooh. I learned from them. [1:14:26] I learned from him because... [1:14:29] The people with the real wealth [1:14:30] you don't know they got the wealth. Right. You know? Right. They walk around plain Jane clothes, know nothing. Yep. You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have money.

[1:14:45] the wealth. Right. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week. [1:14:50] This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew, the number one brand for better sex. Blue Chew just dropped something crazy. Blue Chew Gold. Blue Chew has made it easy for 5 million men to get hard, but now they've made it easier to get horny too. Blue Chew Gold gets your brain and body on the same page fast. Other options just help blood flow, but gold combines [1:15:20] and two, boost arousal and intimacy. So for a good time, go to BlueChew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with promo code ROGAN. You also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. Blue Chew is number one for a reason. [1:15:49] This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America, and that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of free ATMs.

[1:16:19] cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:16:24] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:16:50] Yes, and sneak around. Yeah. Yeah. And keep it. Yeah, there you go. That's the thing because a lot of what wealth is is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. [1:17:01] Just have that money invested. Have that money making money for you. Don't spend it all on stupid shit. Live a modest life. Live a normal life. You're much better off. Especially a professional athlete because you have such a small window of time. I mean a lot of men don't even make their real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s. Or the end of their 30s. Yeah. Yeah. [1:17:23] Yeah, like at Floyd when he fought [1:17:26] Delaware [1:17:28] Then he fought. [1:17:29] Gotti [1:17:31] Then he started making some real money. [1:17:33] Yes. But I mean that's for a pro athlete. But for most of these like really wealthy business people, most of them, unless they're tech investors, they're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you've got a small window of your prime.

[1:17:53] Your prime is essentially like... [1:17:56] Maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years you can make money from 20 to 40. For a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40 is the end. Or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world-class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy. Crazy. Crazy. [1:18:14] That's because he takes care of his body. 100%. You don't put nothing crazy in it. Super disciplined. Never gets out of shape. Never puts any bullshit in his body. And also... [1:18:23] That mindset of what he learned when he was incarcerated. Like that, like discipline is everything. Discipline. Discipline, knowing you're never going back to that. Don't buy anything stupid. Don't be dumb with your money. Don't be dumb with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape. Always keep your conditioning up so when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape. Now you're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge. [1:18:53] Thank you. [1:18:53] Like I said before, the people that you have around you, you know, that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from. [1:19:04] you know, um, [1:19:05] when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they be like, hey, man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you, be like, let's go run. I'm not doing nothing. Let's go jog or let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food. People that want to see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go party. Let's go drink. Let's go do this. Let's do cocaine. You know, I think those are the people that –

[1:19:30] you need to get from around you. 100%. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's... [1:19:37] cool with them seeing you doing that yeah that's also the problem with an entourage yeah for sure these guys are rolling with an entourage you always got one dude who's fucking up in that entourage there's conflicts in the entourage between dudes and it's like you're managing a whole team of knuckleheads it's like oh god yeah just so they can roll deep when you show up at a place you have 30 dudes hop out of suvs like oh he's here he's here look at that group behind him i don't need none of that [1:20:03] That's beautiful. I don't mean that either. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. I'm glad you live the way you live. I really am. I really am because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So knowing that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what did you do different in terms of did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? [1:20:33] that fight for a long time but like when you were physically preparing for it knowing that you're going to be fighting him at 68 what did you do different to be honest i didn't do nothing different really it's crazy like all my fights [1:20:46] There's nothing different. [1:20:48] You know, we trained for me. [1:20:50] Megan Sharper [1:20:52] what I need to work on. [1:20:53] what I'm lacking in, but [1:20:55] The only thing that I changed for [1:20:58] The fight with Canelo is... Chet.

[1:21:01] my strength and condition coach, he got me... [1:21:04] February. [1:21:05] He called me up. He like, hey, we going to get this fight. He just kept saying we going to get it. [1:21:10] So you need to be working out now. [1:21:14] Way before I ever got the Canelo fight so I'm like alright so you come over my house. We'll work out We'll work out. We'll work out. What kind of stuff were you doing? The strength work. I [1:21:23] the strength work like deadlifts like deadlift strength condition like deadlifts working on good legs and things like that and just get my body just you know back to [1:21:33] where it need to be, you know, and, um, [1:21:37] He's just like, man, you got to strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. [1:21:41] and [1:21:42] because quiet is kept, I had just had shoulder surgery. You did? Yeah. So I just, you know, there's a lot of things that, [1:21:50] I go through in training, but... [1:21:53] I don't, [1:21:54] speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse. [1:21:58] Thank you. [1:21:59] You know... [1:22:01] That's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But, yeah, he was just like, man, we got to work. We got to work. So what was the shoulder injury? Labor. [1:22:10] labrum yeah so did you get it sewed back up yeah did you get stem cells shot in there at all no no no i just had surgery on oh man i wish i front in the back i wish i talked to you about that yeah i got you in yeah i didn't get i didn't get it on my left shoulder [1:22:26] So I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left. [1:22:29] in the Gamboa fight.

[1:22:31] Really? Yeah. And you never got it fixed? Never. Never. [1:22:34] Is it okay now or is it fucking you? It's still a tour. [1:22:37] Really? But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to get surgery. Do you feel it? Does it bother you? Sometimes, but not really. Like, it bothered me, like, sometimes, but, like, not crazy. How long are you down for? Yeah. [1:22:53] I'll leave after this. [1:22:55] But the right one, that was crazy. Like, it was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majumov fight. Oh, really? Yeah, after the Majumov fight. It was like... [1:23:03] Thriving and then it was just like man we [1:23:06] better get it done. But he was just on me, like, we gotta do physical therapy, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And it was just like, alright, let's go. So he was just on me, and he was just speaking it into existence. He was like, man, you gonna get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So, like, [1:23:22] I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't [1:23:26] you know, [1:23:27] More so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared to... [1:23:32] you know, go to camp. And when I start back to... [1:23:35] Go. So strength work is like the basics. [1:23:39] strength training but like what kind of conditioning were you doing oh no nothing different like running swimming [1:23:45] things like that. [1:23:46] Thank you. [1:23:47] AND [1:23:48] You didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to be able to walk around what weight is? No, I just tightened it up. With the strength work, just tightened it up. That was it. [1:23:59] Damn, I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder.

[1:24:03] I could get you back in town. There's a place called Waste Well that I work with here that does stem cells that helps so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of pro athletes come here. NFL guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like a state-of-the-art facility. It's really good. [1:24:20] And it could help you. [1:24:22] I bet it could heal that labrum. [1:24:25] Probably. Yeah. We'll see. Especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore. Yeah. Obviously, I'm sure you're still working out. You look great. [1:24:31] No, I'm actually not. Not working out at all? Nothing? No, I've been chilling. [1:24:37] You earned it. Hey, I've been putting on my time with my kids and just... [1:24:42] relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning. Did they offer you a rematch? No. They didn't? Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch but you wanted $100 million. No, that's a lie. All internet bullshit? That's a lie. There wasn't even no... [1:24:58] No rematch in the... [1:24:59] In the contract, there is no conversation about a rematch. There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he won a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch or anything like that? [1:25:16] Let's put that out there. Is there a number that would bring you back? I don't know. [1:25:23] Me personally, I can't say it is. [1:25:26] You're just not compelled. Yeah, not at all. You did it. Yeah. You did it perfect. [1:25:32] It's like I'm not...

[1:25:33] The motivation, I'm always motivated by competing and... [1:25:39] you know, things like that. But like, when it comes to like boxing, it's like, I did it all. Right. Like, it's like, I checked everything off the [1:25:48] the checkbox. So it's like, uh... [1:25:51] It wasn't close. Right. You know? Right. I beat him, you know, decisively. So what am I doing it for? I think I might have given him one or maybe two rounds. More like one. [1:26:03] Yeah. It was mostly, there was, I think it was like maybe the fifth, he had a really good fifth round. Yeah, the fifth round, he had a good fifth round. Yeah. But other than that, man, especially the ninth round. Woo! Woo! And he headbutt me. He headbutt me on purpose. Did he? Yes. Really? Yes. I was like, man... [1:26:23] And he was like, sorry, champion. I was like, it's a motherfucker. He just got a little angry. Yeah. A little frustrated. Yeah, a little frustrated. But it's a fight. Anytime I'm in a fight, I don't. [1:26:35] I don't complain about nothing. If somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist or anything like that, I never complain. Because I'm so aggressive, I'm like, it's a fight. [1:26:45] You know what I mean? Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in. Because if he don't, then I'm going to take matters in my own hands, and I'm going to do the same thing. So... [1:26:57] I don't complain. I'm just like, bam! I was a little frustrated. I was like, man, alright, I

[1:27:03] I breathe let's get back to work. Yeah, don't lose your composure. Yeah, that's the problem with getting angry, right? Yeah But yeah that ninth round whoo, that's when you really start separating. Yeah, you really start pouring it on I was wondering if you're gonna stop them I [1:27:19] When the ninth round was coming, when you were cracking them with some big shots, I'm like, whoa. So I told my coach. [1:27:25] when we was in there, he was like, "You don't gotta do that!" They know me and I'm like, "Man, I can go for it." And you know, and it's just like, they just know me. They know my demeanor. And it was like, "You don't gotta give them a chance. Just keep doing what you doing. You boxing the shit out of them. You winning hands down. Don't give them a chance. You don't gotta box them. You don't gotta do that. You winning." So it was just like me wanting to listen to my coaches. [1:27:53] all the time because that's, I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm going to do because, you know, [1:28:03] That's the belief I have in them. [1:28:06] You know, and I just like, all right. The last round, I was like, all right, let me. [1:28:11] win this round and separate myself, you know, and [1:28:16] I felt like I had... [1:28:17] hurt him bad in that round. Yes. You know, but it's boxing. Yeah. Well, he's got a crazy chin. Yeah. He's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's something unusual. [1:28:31] No. You don't think so? No, they said redheads is hard to knock out.

[1:28:37] It's proven. Yeah, I Googled it. What is they called? Gingers? Yeah, Gingers. I promise you. Well, they have a higher painting on. Yes. When you look it up, I looked it up because my cousin [1:28:51] She's a nurse. [1:28:54] And she said, yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep, even when you giving them the aesthetics to go to sleep. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Anesthesia. Redheads often possess a unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20 percent more general anesthesia. Yeah. Wow. Or higher – 19 to 20 percent is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. [1:29:24] Largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead to increased sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting. When she told me that, I Googled it and I was like, damn, this is why Canelo, you know what I mean, can take so many good shots. That does make sense. [1:29:54] Mosley had red hair. [1:29:56] So maybe like redheads have more Neanderthal genes. Probably. You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong. I wonder if that's where it comes from. I thought she was playing at first. That's crazy. She was like, man, when we be trying to put them to sleep, it'd be harder to...

[1:30:12] To put them to sleep than normal people. So I started Googling. I like... [1:30:16] Fucking right 19 to 20 percent is nuts. That's a lot. That's like the difference between killing someone and [1:30:22] and them just going to sleep. Like you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up. That's crazy. [1:30:29] 19 to 20% is wild. [1:30:32] Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young. That's good for his balance. Yeah. And the legs. And the legs. Yeah. It's his base. Yeah. That's a big part of it. Also, he's got that thick fucking neck, big square head. Like he's been doing an iron neck all this life. Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to pain. [1:30:56] Interesting. Most humans... [1:30:58] More sensitivity. Yeah. Lower threshold. Interesting. That's like the opposite. [1:31:04] Wow. Even though they're redheaded. So he ain't one of them. He ain't one of them. [1:31:13] He's the other one. One of those Mexican redheads. It's wild. That's crazy. But yeah, I never thought the horse thing. Like Lampley was explaining. It was like, yeah, the balance and the legs. Because you're constantly squeezing down on that horse. And you're constantly adjusting in your core and everything. I'm like, oh, I never even thought of that. [1:31:34] world champion. Don't do that. People fall off horses. They break their fucking neck. Don't do that. Yeah, I seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture of

[1:31:45] On the horse... [1:31:46] And my bro, Manny was like, man, I don't know about these fucking horses. These horses be crazy. I said, man, I rode horses before. He was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around. And he asking the guy, and I... [1:31:57] About the horses and the other guy was like yeah, he couldn't get on this horse. So I get on a horse. I take the horse I'll take the picture [1:32:06] Now get off. [1:32:07] Okay. [1:32:08] No longer than like 10 minutes. [1:32:11] This guy on his own horse, his horse just buck, go crazy, buck him off. [1:32:17] Boom, he broke his arm. This in the parade. [1:32:21] and the horse is just running wild i'm like he said see see this is what i was telling you he was going crazy he was like see i told you these horses yeah but it wasn't the same horse it was a different horse yeah but he was just like see that's why i was telling you these horses be fucking crazy yeah you just never know with animals you just my oldest daughter got into horses for a while one of her friends used to do those things where you know they the horse jumps [1:32:51] And she fell once and she was okay. And then she fell a second time. She hurt her wrist pretty bad. I was like, honey, you've got to stop. You can't be doing this. This is too dangerous. Because, like, those kind of injuries you get falling off a horse, especially if you get stomped, those are life-changing. Especially if you get tied up. Oh. I didn't see videos of people getting bucked in their legs. Oh. They just a rag dog getting beat up. Getting stomped in the head. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[1:33:21] Fuck that. Fuck that. I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but like... [1:33:29] Why? Why do it? [1:33:30] Yeah. Texas Ranger. Everybody wants to be a cowboy. They watch Yellowstone too many times. Yeah, everybody wants to be a cowboy. It's funny, we were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime, and you were talking about burbles. Yeah. But I've been going down this burble rabbit hole, those mastiffs. I'm fascinated by them, man. The South African mastiffs, they used to keep lions and hyenas away from the farms. [1:34:00] We were talking about coyotes. You got land now. You're relaxing now. I like it. Separated from everything. Got some space. [1:34:14] When I was building a house, you know, a lot of people was like, oh, he's building a house on the Aero Spence money and this and that and this. I'm like, dude, do you know how long... [1:34:25] the processes of building houses, [1:34:27] Like, this is not no week. [1:34:30] or two two month deal you know i mean like it's years yeah like that's from design to the beginning of construction it's years for sure you gotta go pick out every fucking thing in the house you know i bought that land in 2016 oh really wow and i just was sitting on it it was a house that there already you know i had it ran out to one of my buddies my best friend at that you know and i

[1:34:55] When the time came I had more kids and [1:34:58] So... [1:34:59] You know, it was better that I waited. [1:35:02] then to build then so i just was like man it's time you know it's more peaceful out there the kids they ride the four-wheelers out there where we can shoot out there nice we can we can do whatever we want out there and it's just you know peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and you know the the nature calling yeah ain't nothing like it that's the dream it's definitely the dream yeah [1:35:32] their life upright. Yeah. [1:35:34] You know? [1:35:35] I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all. [1:35:38] Ah. [1:35:39] I'm more competitive in other sports. You know? Like what? Like basketball, football. I'm anything. I ain't going to lie on anything I do. It's like I got to compete. I got to compete. Darts, pool, like whatever. You remember I came in here like, you want to play pool? You're like, let's do it. I was like, no, I was just playing. You can't kick my ass on camera. [1:36:04] I heard that you was good. I fucked Lex Lewis up. Yeah. He was talking a lot of shit. [1:36:09] Lennox Lewis never got a shot. [1:36:12] I ran two racks on him, and he was like, we're done. I came in here pump faking you. I knew, though. Already knowing. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. When your company's growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. ShipStation's intelligence-driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, and

[1:36:35] inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment. ShipStation compares rates across all major global carriers, including USPS, UPS, and FedEx, plus your own discounted rates if you have them to find you the best shipping option on every order with discounts up to 90% off. There's a [1:37:05] Trust ShipStation. Try ShipStation free for 60 days with full access to all features, no credit card needed. Go to ShipStation.com and use the code JRE for 60 days free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's ShipStation.com, code JRE. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. [1:37:35] skills, experience, availability. But even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter connects you with qualified candidates instantly. And their latest feature puts the most interested

[1:38:05] you're speaking with the right people at the start. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. I just like to have fun, you know. [1:38:35] an elite athlete is insanely competitive yeah you know that's the problem though is unfortunately some of them get involved in gambling you know like that's the michael jordan that's what we was just talking about yeah he was like you game i said man i ain't never gamble good for you a lot of people was always asking why you don't get more in your fights i'm no i don't gamble at all good for you you know they was like oh well we see you when you when you gabbled on the the [1:39:05] That was only because he called me out with my brother. What did you do? What was that? He bagged me $10,000 that Tiafema was going to whoop Shakur. Oh, that's a crazy bag. You know what I mean? So it was just like. That's a silly bag. He called me out on live. [1:39:20] you know stream so i i'm never gonna back down from that like of course i'm riding with shakur until the wheels fall off that's also like if if i was making odds i'm putting like a six to one yeah like that's a crazy flat out bet yeah you're not even getting any odds on the money and you're putting it on no disrespect to tfemo but i think that shakur is he has the potential to be an all time great yeah he will be i believe so he will be all he got to do is keep doing what he's doing

[1:39:50] and that's it. With fighters like Shakur... [1:39:55] Devin. [1:39:58] It's all about [1:39:59] Stay in focus. You know when these young fighters get to the [1:40:04] the pinnacle of boxing and they got everything at their disposal sometimes they get caught up in a [1:40:12] the limelight and the things that really don't matter. [1:40:16] You know, and long as they stay focused. [1:40:19] and [1:40:20] keep their eye on the prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land, they're going to be just fine. Yeah. Because, you know, [1:40:28] it's easy for them to, [1:40:31] to get caught up. [1:40:32] and want to be a fan-pleasing fighter, you know, listening to the masses, oh, they need to fight like this, or I don't want to see them fight because all they do is run, or all they do is fight like this, and they pity Pat, they ain't got no power, this and that. It's boxing, they winning. All they got to do is keep winning. That's it. [1:40:53] Well, look at Floyd later in his life. Floyd later in his life fought so safe. [1:40:59] But yet made so much money because he talked so much shit. For sure. That people were spending money hoping he was going to lose. And he's not the first one that did that. Tyson. Yeah. Roy Jones Jr. Yeah. Muhammad Ali. Yep. And I always... [1:41:15] I say this... [1:41:17] When I was with Tyrone, I said, why is it only the black fighters that got to

[1:41:23] talk shit to, to sell... [1:41:26] Well, in MMA, it's White Fighters, too. Conor McGregor. No, no, no. Conor McGregor, you know... [1:41:31] I say he one of us. [1:41:34] You know, because they was treated like black people over there where he from. You know, a lot of people don't know that. Oh, yeah. A lot of Irish, you know, they was they was treated just like us. So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know, but at the same time, you know, in boxing, it's always. [1:41:53] The black fighters got to... [1:41:55] be the ones that step out and [1:41:59] play this circus role and, you know, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them. But, [1:42:08] the ones that don't like, [1:42:10] Andre Ward, Terrence Crawford, Tim Bradley. [1:42:14] you know, they boring or they can't sell things like that. [1:42:19] Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in the ring? Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing. Can I knock people out? Of course. That's what people want to see. They want to see action. I'm going to give them action. But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of shit talking too for some reason. They want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person. But they pick and choose. They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. [1:42:49] Tyson Fury talks a lot of shit. Oh, yeah. And obviously one of the greatest of all time. You know, talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, you know.

[1:42:58] Singing and shit. Yeah. After the fights. That guy's great. In his draws. In his draws at his cup. Legendary. He's a legend. Legendary. He's a legend. I mean, that guy. But he's from a different country. Sure. He's a gypsy. So you got to understand, like, [1:43:15] He bringing those people over here and they're going to support him win, lose a draw. Yep. You know, when we, [1:43:21] went over [1:43:23] to the UK and we watch Amir Khan fight Kell Brook. [1:43:28] It was electrifying. [1:43:29] And those guys had... [1:43:31] losses being both stopped and all that, you know, but, [1:43:36] those people came out to support like a motherfucker. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I left, and I left that arena like, God damn, man, I wish I was, you know, from the UK, you know, like, [1:43:48] Because the way they support boxing, they don't look at, oh, since you lost, you know, we're not going to support you. They look at, no, these is warriors, and we're not going to stop supporting them because they lost. That's true. That is true about the UK. America, they like, man, you got your ass whooped, on to the next. You a bum, you washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was, and it's just like they – [1:44:11] chew you up and spit you out. And it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top. [1:44:17] of a sport that everybody's gunning from you you know that's that shit hard like yeah that's the culture of america though right it's a bit of a problem yeah i it disgusts me with fighting it's not like that in the ufc though it is not so much there's plenty of plenty of people it's well the ufc it's not as important i'm about to say it's only like a couple of people in a ufc that was

[1:44:47] John Jones, he had that one little loss. That's a bullshit loss. Yeah, but everybody knows that was a bullshit loss. [1:44:55] my boy, Suhudo, he just finally lost with not too long. He lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on, then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title. But like, [1:45:09] Thank you. [1:45:10] Most everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that. And they be at the top of the top, you know, and everybody still support them. But don't nobody go. Oh, you got five losses. He trashed. He did that. No, I just that's true. Maybe it was off night. There's something to that, because I think it's more difficult to not lose in MMA. There's just too many different styles. There's too many different approaches, too many variables. And it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight. [1:45:40] grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that shit you're doing in training, jujitsu. You're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get fucked up. We think about all the things that get fucked up just with your hands, just boxing, shoulders, back, knees. Ribs. Ribs, yeah. [1:45:58] And then... [1:46:00] Yep, neck, shoulder. Yeah, yeah. And then... [1:46:04] Add getting dumped on your head. Add getting kneed in the face. Add getting your legs kicked. [1:46:10] Knees buckled. Toes broke. Toes broke. Yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe. Yeah.

[1:46:17] came in and fought with it. Afterwards, toes all fucked up. Crooked to the side and he adjusts it. Pops it into place. It's tough for them for combat sports. [1:46:29] People don't know. Like I said, they don't know where we go through. We don't never walk in a world... [1:46:35] class fight [1:46:37] you know, the same or 100% healthy. Like everybody just be like, Oh man, I'm 100%. [1:46:42] No, the fuck you're not. It's not possible. There's always going to be something that's bothering you. If you're going through a 10-week camp, how is it even possible to not have something? If they bullshit, but it's going to show in the fight. Right, right. It shows in the fight. But don't they – everybody always – nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going into this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that. Nobody says that. No. I mean, it's just – it's the game. [1:47:12] a fight i was just like i don't know what shit tell him hit me in both of my shoulders like it don't matter like my shoulder is healed like yeah how long did it take before it felt 100 again [1:47:25] after the fight [1:47:27] Really? Yeah. [1:47:29] because I got it on Halloween. [1:47:31] Oh, you got in October. Yeah. And then how many months did you have to recover? I fought September. Whoa. Okay. So that wasn't a year. So you had... [1:47:39] Not even a year. And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery? [1:47:46] uh... probably

[1:47:50] April. Okay. [1:47:52] That's a good amount of time. [1:47:54] Yeah. [1:47:55] People don't realize like shoulders is such a complicated joint. There's all this different movement and it still wasn't like [1:48:02] like, [1:48:03] 100% after I fought. Because you didn't have your strength all the way back. Even after you fought. Yeah, like it wasn't 100%. So it wasn't 100% in the fight. [1:48:13] I always tell people like, if you watch my jab and my hook, [1:48:22] in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook. [1:48:26] My prior fights. [1:48:28] and Madrimoff and Spence, you'll see the difference. - Really? - You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it. - Right. - You know, they would just be like, oh. - What's still is effective? - Yeah, but then, but then when they know, they be like, it wasn't that snappy. [1:48:42] it wasn't as hard. You know, you kind of was just like landing out there. [1:48:48] So. [1:48:49] That's just little cute little things. But now it's 100%? Oh, yeah, it's good now. Wow. [1:48:54] And the left one doesn't bother you, really? [1:48:57] Uh... [1:48:58] The left one, it bothered me when it's overused. Mm-hmm. You know, but like... [1:49:05] In a fight. [1:49:06] No, I don't think none of that shit bothered me. Do you have any plans to come back in town? [1:49:11] Can we get you back in town? I never come to Austin. You know, the only time I ever came here was this podcast. Never, ever been here in my life. Really? Oh, it's a great city. Yeah. Julie always talked about it. So many good restaurants. So many good places. She took me to the college and all that. You know, reminiscing because she went to college here and she just loved it here. So she's like, this is the parts that we went to. This is this, this, this. I'm like, oh, Julie, you're a happy place, huh?

[1:49:41] love you here. Well, why not move here? It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up. [1:49:48] Get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. [1:49:52] Stem cells wild man. It's crazy what it could do. Yeah. Just regenerates tissue. Everything heals. But like within like weeks you start feeling better. You're like, God. Yeah. Everything just feels looser. For sure. I've had so many friends that were like on the verge of getting surgery. Like, I don't know. Doctor says I need surgery. Get stem cells. [1:50:10] Everything's good. I had a full-length rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells. He's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore. It's gone. It's gone. [1:50:22] Completely healed. [1:50:25] It's crazy. Like stem cells are nuts, man. And they're getting better at it all the time. [1:50:32] Pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it. Surgeons hate it. Doctors hate it because it's going to cost them money. It's going to take away their money. Yeah, there's a bunch of people that are going to get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery. Right. Right. [1:50:45] And afterwards they're like, oh, I'm good. [1:50:47] Because the doctor is like when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. [1:50:53] And these doctors, the way they make their money is cutting you. And they all want to cut you. [1:50:57] And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable. My doctors try to avoid cutting me. They do? Well, that's good. So they waited all the way until. That's a good doctor.

[1:51:14] That's a good doctor. Until it was like... [1:51:17] We got to. [1:51:18] And that's after the Magma fight, right? Yeah. Well, I'd love to get you back in here because I really think they could help that. [1:51:27] For sure. Yeah, especially you've got your whole life ahead of you now. You don't want... [1:51:32] You know, you don't want that bothering you, fucking with you. You'll be able to do whatever you want. [1:51:36] And especially now because you're not training hard, ooh, it will heal good. Yeah. It will heal – because that's the problem. A lot of guys, they get the stem cells and they go back to training in a few weeks and they kind of – it's not 100 percent healed and they tweak it a little bit and – but now if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that. [1:51:56] Yeah. [1:51:57] So what is your plans now? Now that you're on top of the world, you did it. What does it feel like? It feels like it's supposed to. It feels like it's supposed to. [1:52:09] Like, a lot of people, they ask me, they say, man, how do I feel? Like, [1:52:13] how's the retired life? I'm like, the same. [1:52:16] like not in [1:52:19] And my life has changed, but... [1:52:21] the people [1:52:22] Got it. [1:52:23] Everywhere else. [1:52:24] congratulating me and things like that but [1:52:27] Like, as far as, like, my living... [1:52:31] you know, aspect of my life is the same. [1:52:36] When I'm fighting, training, you know, I'm focused on the fight, but... [1:52:40] After that, it's like my kids. [1:52:43] You know, the gym.

[1:52:45] things like that. [1:52:47] Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you'd be great at that. [1:52:53] I don't, I'd be chilling. I don't be liking to be in the media talking and all this. But you don't even have to be in the media. I'd be avoiding the media. [1:53:03] I'd be avoiding, you know how like some people, like they want to be all up in the limelight and things like that. Yeah. I'd just be, I'd be avoiding. They'd be like, Tans, can we get in here? Nah, nah, nah, right now I don't want to talk. Yeah. You know. Well, I appreciate you coming in here though. Oh yeah, for sure. [1:53:23] like all the other fighters and be a commentary you know [1:53:29] Good for you. [1:53:31] I'd be cool. Good for you. That's going to help you so much. It's going to help you so much because it's the people that crave that limelight. When it all goes away, then they're like, well, who am I? [1:53:40] I thought I was special. [1:53:42] I thought I was special. [1:53:43] I want to be the guy when, oh, he's here, he's here. They want to be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets, all that. I avoid all that shit, too. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I know who I am. [1:53:56] you know, internally. [1:53:58] Can't nobody tell me who Terrence Crawford is. So I'm happy in my own skin, always been happy in my own skin. And I believe that's how I got to... [1:54:11] The point where I'm at now. [1:54:13] When nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along. When people told me I was a bad businessman...

[1:54:23] Okay, look at me now, you know what people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done and I [1:54:30] I did what I wanted to do. [1:54:33] Look at me now. So now it's like, everybody like, man, this dude was... [1:54:37] knew all along, and it's like, [1:54:39] Yeah, because I'm not a follower. I'm not going to listen to people that is. [1:54:44] never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risks to tell me what I can and what I can't do. [1:54:52] So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy, you know, whether they chant my name or whether they're not. As long as my family love me and my family there and they good, they well taken care of, then that's the only thing that makes me happy. That's beautiful. I hope young fighters succeed. [1:55:12] that are inspired by you, take that example. [1:55:16] I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person living flashy in front of everybody. [1:55:31] It's a foolish adventure. It's temporary. It's temporary. And they don't understand that. Like they only change your name for a moment. [1:55:40] You know, this is very temporary. [1:55:43] and they'll turn on you in a heartbeat. Just do something crazy. [1:55:49] or lose a match that you're not supposed to lose, or be up against one of your rivals, and you lose, and then everybody's going to turn it back on you. 100%. You know, and...

[1:56:00] You're going to be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there. He had everybody in this corner. Now he had his lowest. Now they making fun of him. Now they taking pictures. And, you know, I hit him up. He makes fun of himself, too, though. Yeah, he do, but he's suffering. Yes. You know, and I hit him up and I try and encourage him and I send him messages and I, you know, and. [1:56:27] You got to be there for people when they're at their lowest. [1:56:29] That's great. [1:56:30] He was a very talented guy. But, again, that's what you said. Like, he's a guy who really got caught up in it. Mm-hmm. [1:56:37] That's a perfect example. What's Gervonta doing now? I don't know. Is he on the run? I don't know. I don't know nothing about that guy. I think he's on the run. [1:56:47] At least he was, like, recently. [1:56:50] That's unfortunate. [1:56:51] He's so fucking talented. [1:56:53] He's a... [1:56:54] He has such an unusual style, too. Very economical, throws very few punches, but when he does, it's boom. Explosive? Super, super explosive. I mean, this is a great time for boxing, though. It really is. It's an exciting time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now. [1:57:13] You know? [1:57:14] And they fight each other. That's the most important thing that I can say is... [1:57:22] The fights is being made, whether you on this side or that side. [1:57:26] The fights has been made. The promoters is working together within each other. Um,

[1:57:32] So [1:57:34] What do you attribute that to? Do you think that's Riyadh's season? Of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Turkey came in and changed up the game. You know, he... [1:57:45] He went to the fighters. [1:57:46] Thank you. [1:57:47] you know, hey, [1:57:49] I got this, I got this, we want this fight to happen. And the fighter's like, whoa, whoa. [1:57:55] We know we're not going to get this and nothing. Nobody would have never seen no... [1:58:00] Bevolve better be if right if I would have never happened them promoters not gonna pay that money You know [1:58:09] There are so many fights out there that... [1:58:13] the promoters would have never paid for [1:58:15] top rank would have never paid [1:58:17] the money that [1:58:19] Turkey paid to see Shakur and T.O. fight. [1:58:22] Right. You know, so we got so many fights. [1:58:25] because of him and we need to be appreciative of him because [1:58:30] Without him, none of those fights would have happened. 100%. The Canelo fight wouldn't have happened for me. The Majumov fight wouldn't have happened for me. [1:58:38] And so many more. [1:58:42] Absolutely. I think that's very exciting. But that's what the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen. And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on a rise right now. [1:58:56] People was talking about boxing more. People is more supportive about boxing now. And people is tuning in to not only...

[1:59:04] Riyadh season shows but all shows look at Clarissa. Yep, she just put on a hell of a hell of a performance and it was rocking in that Yeah, it was crazy sold out over 16,000 people as a woman. I know right man She's doing her thing and people don't give women enough credit like she bringing out stars you know and [1:59:28] Man, it was a good atmosphere in there. Yeah. And it was a very skillful fight. Yeah. They came to bang. They came to bang. I said, y'all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. Ooh-wee. But you could see it in her face. She wanted to knock out so bad. Oh, yeah. She's a dog. She's ferocious. Yeah. And so skillful, too. Yeah. You know, but she's a unique individual star. [1:59:58] A realm where there's not a lot of women stars, you know, it's like but I think a person like her can encourage others. Yeah, and it could be more and when you have one star a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape. [2:00:12] for more [2:00:13] For sure. [2:00:14] Sure, because she transcends. Yeah. She transcends boxing. Like, a lot of people know who Clarissa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is. [2:00:23] outside of boxing and there's not a lot of other female boxers you could say that about you know there's only been a few ever like christy martin lay la lee lay la lee and wolf yeah and wolf was good yeah and wolf whoo that was crack she could and she was a ferocious trainer too remember she was training kirkland yes

[2:00:42] Bro. With the bag on the back of the truck. Oh, man. She'd make him go through hell. But when he was with her, he was phenomenal. When he undefeated with her? I think he was undefeated with her. And she wasn't with him when he fought Canelo. [2:00:58] Unfortunately. A couple of fights, huh? I don't think she was going. Well, I think it was too much. Like, it was too hard. He didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady, man. She would put you through some fucking hell. Her training, like, there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp. I was like, my God. [2:01:16] God. And for a woman to be able to do that, you know, it just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was. But his performances showed as well. Yes. You know? Because she was getting in his mind as well as physical. Yes. You know? And... [2:01:33] Taking everything from him and putting him in a room and not his training. It was kind of like Rocky. You know, you ain't got no TV. All you do is work. Yeah. Sleep. [2:01:45] yeah boxing yeah and it's just like damn i got into uh old uh boxing footage real recently over the last like six months i've been watching a lot of old camps and there's some great youtube channels that are shows haggler's camps and haggler's camps were phenomenal it was so good like haggler was rich and he would go to provincetown this shitty little fucking town on the cape and [2:02:10] No disrespect, Provincetown. I'm just saying, and compared to where he could be. He could be in New York City. He could be anywhere he wanted. But he would go to this small town in the middle of fucking nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no TV, no nothing, just eat, sleep, train. He was sparring 100 rounds a week. I mean, it was wild. Watching him train was incredible. It was incredible.

[2:02:40] No stone unturned. And it was just all... [2:02:43] discipline and drive and focus and [2:02:47] And he was another guy that didn't get his due until he stopped – really until he stopped Hearns. That's when people really woke up. All the inside boxing people were very aware, but it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world caught up. Because they wanted to flash you. [2:03:02] Yeah, it wasn't flashy. Just dominate. Just break people's wills. The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital. That was tough. Oh, my God. Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler, man. Had a chin from hell. You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles. They did a CAT scan on him, like a scan of his head. [2:03:32] with headgear, or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long. [2:03:38] Yeah, just, ah. But I love watching those old school training footage videos. Like there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. [2:03:53] I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate – [2:03:59] The amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day over and over and over and over and over until you're finally in the ring.

[2:04:16] Like, the ring is almost the easy part. The easiest part. [2:04:20] It's tough. It's like, you know... [2:04:24] when... [2:04:25] When we in Colorado and we got to run the mountain, like sometimes I'd be like, man, I ain't running this mountain. I don't care. [2:04:34] And then it'd be like, you're going to get your ass whooped. You better get your ass up. Or Bo will come in there and be like, let's go. I'd be like, man, Bo, let's go. [2:04:45] Bo got this saying. Anytime I'm giving him some push, he'd be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go. [2:04:54] I'm like, that's great to have someone with you like that. Hey, right. I'm like, here we go. He's been with you from the beginning? From the start. That's so big, too. And it's crazy because... [2:05:04] The days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I... [2:05:08] do the best. [2:05:10] You know, and... [2:05:12] Because you conquered that inner bitch, that thing inside you that wants to not do it. Yeah, Stephen would say- Like, I'm the fucking man. Yeah, Stephen would be like- [2:05:20] He was like... [2:05:21] When you don't want to do something, it's like, [2:05:24] you're trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you're trying to do it fast. So, like, my best times... [2:05:30] is when I don't want to do it. Like my best sparring is when I don't want to spar. Because it's like, I'm like, all right, I'm about to fuck you up because I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit. You know, I don't want to get hit. You know, so it's like your best days is...

[2:05:46] when you don't want to do it. Yeah. You know, that's when I perform the best in the gym and stuff like that. So, yeah, man, a lot of young fighters, when they come and see – [2:05:58] my training, they see what I go through. [2:06:00] Three times a day. So it's eat sleep shit [2:06:05] work. [2:06:06] You know, they like, man, you train too hard. [2:06:09] I'm like, ain't no such thing, you know. [2:06:12] Tim Bradley told me, hey, man, you got to rest. You got to chill out. Andre Ward, man, you got to rest. [2:06:20] You know, and... [2:06:23] these last two training camps. [2:06:26] I took on their advice. [2:06:29] and took just a day off, like in a week, like every week instead of training seven days a week. [2:06:36] I take... [2:06:37] One day off just not doing nothing. And it helped me tremendously on my recovery. Really? Because I used to just... [2:06:43] do active rest on Sunday. [2:06:47] We'll do the incline. [2:06:48] We'll just do the incline. That's it. [2:06:50] in the morning, early in the morning, and then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no, you got to just take the whole day off, not doing nothing, just recover. [2:07:02] And as you get, as I got older, you know, my last... [2:07:06] to training camps. I took that [2:07:08] advice and it's just like man [2:07:10] I'm like, man, I could have did this years ago. I was just so like locked in.

[2:07:18] If I take a day off, [2:07:20] They're going to have a day up on me. Right. You know, and I was just like, I can't do that. I was working. Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns. [2:07:31] Where you put in too much work. Yeah. Like seeing a guy fight when he's over-trained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like his drive actually fucked him. Yeah. Yeah. [2:07:41] I've seen it before. In MMA, it happens all the time. Especially guys who don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up in the morning. I used that in my last two camps. And that was the only two camps you did that? My last two camps. Wow. Interesting. Interesting. So everything was... [2:08:00] visual with my coaches because they've been with me so long. So they know when to pull back. Some days they'll be like, alright, you know. [2:08:09] You're peaking. You did four rounds. [2:08:12] Nah, we done. Like, man, I got eight rounds today. Ah, you good. [2:08:16] be like what you good [2:08:18] Don't worry about it. We'll come back tomorrow. [2:08:21] And I'd be like, "All right." I would never question them. Or we come in there and they'd be like, "All right, today, we're just gonna shadow box and we're gonna hit the mitts." But I never questioned them, but they already knew by watching me [2:08:34] you know, along the weeks to pull me back. Yeah. Then it started getting... [2:08:39] you know, to me and I'm like, oh, okay. So now I know what they're like, they not going to let me overtrain. [2:08:45] because they know I'm going to give it my all every time I train and anything I do. So they just pull me back. Like, all right, well, we're going to just do yoga today, and we're going to do boxing work. We ain't going to do no strength and conditioning, or we're not going to do no road work, or we're just going to swim. Instead of running, we're going to swim.

[2:09:06] You know, so some days they are [2:09:08] Flip-flop. That's the beauty of having a really good trainer. Yeah, for sure. And someone is really paying attention to you and real and knows you like knows the signs knows when you're a little sluggish knows when you're peeking a little early. [2:09:22] Yeah. Yeah. Before you bet. Yeah. And anybody say that you train too hard, it's like... [2:09:27] Compared to who? [2:09:28] Compared to who? It's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body is conditioned to go that hard. [2:09:38] Because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, you need six months off. I had a friend. It was my friend Cameron Haynes. He runs ultra marathons. When he was training for a 250-mile run, he was running a marathon every day. [2:09:51] Every day. [2:09:51] Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. [2:09:55] Yeah, you can. Yeah. You just got to get... [2:09:58] up to that. [2:09:59] So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and fucking off and then they get back into camp, yeah, you can't do three hard a day like that. Yeah. [2:10:09] But if you're already in shape... [2:10:11] and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning will be so much better. One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in MMA, is how tired they get in a three-round fight. Just a three-round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five-round fight. So what is the difference?

[2:10:41] not fucking up your body, not partying. Knowing how to breathe. Uh-huh. That's the most important. Being efficient. [2:10:47] Yeah. [2:10:48] Because when I... [2:10:51] My first time at the UFC. [2:10:54] When I did strength and conditioning... [2:10:56] You know... [2:10:57] I was like, man, I'm not getting nothing out of it. It's easy. [2:11:01] And I was like, well, it's not meant to. [2:11:04] Break you or kill you you you go you're gonna see the difference and I'm just like man when I'm when I'm doing UFC back back at home like I'm sore like I'm not sore, you know the next day when I'm doing [2:11:20] strength condition here. But like gradually you start seeing the results. [2:11:25] Right, you know, and it's like damn I [2:11:28] You know, and it's a science behind it. Yes, you know, and I was just like I [2:11:32] In my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm I'm used to working hard and I'm. [2:11:38] going home and I'm like, oh, that was a good workout. I feel it. [2:11:42] Like... [2:11:44] Psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing, you know, because my body is so in shape. [2:11:51] You know, I'm like, man, I need to do more. And they're like, you good. You did a lot today. You know, I'm like. [2:11:56] All right, so like [2:11:59] Gradually, I'm starting to see the effects. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm like, oh, okay. [2:12:03] So maybe he was working me out too hard. You know, I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. You know, it's all a science. It really is a science. And, you know, the problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven. You know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. You know, like slow down. Yeah, slow down. We got to do this. We got to progress. Yes.

[2:12:33] the fight, where you just settle in and then fight time. [2:12:38] That's my guy, Gavin. [2:12:39] Gavin just like, "Oh, don't worry. We... [2:12:43] Mm-hmm. [2:12:44] That's the beautiful thing about having someone that you can trust that really knows what they're doing. Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes, and they might be costing themselves a little bit. But then there's a lot of lazy fighters like, yeah, I don't want to overtrain. Yeah. Like, no, no, no. You're under training. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight. Yeah. [2:13:07] It says this. [2:13:08] fucking dance man it takes forever to learn it takes forever [2:13:13] You know, that's why, like, a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their 30s because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need. They know what they need to do. They know what a camp really feels like. [2:13:25] They prepare for it. [2:13:27] Baynered. [2:13:28] the experience. Yeah. You know, so... [2:13:31] Yeah, they definitely know their body. They know when they're in shape, when they... [2:13:37] out of shape, what they need. [2:13:39] when they need a little more [2:13:41] Experience is the best teacher, I would say. [2:13:45] Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and that wisdom, the things that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are probably taking it all in. Okay, because in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what. What's the right approach?

[2:14:15] Yeah, for sure. [2:14:28] For sure. [2:14:29] And that goes back to styles. When I said, [2:14:33] I was trying to coach everybody to the same style. [2:14:38] Everybody ain't meant to be trained the same. Everybody don't have the same, you know, mental capacity to process things the same way. Some people process things different. That's kind of like yelling at a fighter. [2:14:52] You know that that motivated me sometimes that break fighters they like, haha, I'm getting right at I'm right some wrong and you know, so We look at them like man toughen up, you know, but I [2:15:05] nowadays is different like everything don't flock the same with [2:15:11] One fighter like a dude. No, you got to figure out what gets your fighter going. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people. Yeah. [2:15:23] Because your livelihood depends upon another person performing, which is kind of crazy. [2:15:29] It's a crazy way to live your life. That's any sports. [2:15:32] Yep. Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, [2:15:38] The players... [2:15:40] And the fighters and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform. I can tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it,

[2:15:47] Then that's on you. Right now. Coaches, they can make. I mean, they can get out coached. They can call the wrong plays at the wrong times. Different like that. But all in all, if you go out there and miss a tackle, if you go out there and I catch the ball, why am I getting fired? [2:16:06] They're going to blame me. So, hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know, the up. [2:16:17] Getting fired... [2:16:19] by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do if you're a coach. Like if they're not a coach, how could you really understand? If you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses. If you're, if you're not doing that, you just are seeing results. That's all you say. You're judging based on results and you don't, [2:16:45] really know who's a good coach and who's not because if you're a good coach you got shit athletes [2:16:50] You can only go so far. I see it. [2:16:52] And it's tough. Yeah. It's tough to, you know... [2:16:56] go across the middle and try to catch a bullet. [2:16:58] When you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you. Yep. You know, and it's crazy to go up, you know, on a seven footer trying to shoot a three. Like it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us. And we like, man, you didn't catch the ball.

[2:17:28] you coming full speed and you got to worry about getting your feet inbounds and things like that. It's so much. Well, it's like T.F.E. Mo's corner during the secure fight. You got to hit him. You got to hit him. Like, what do you think I'm trying to do? Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to him. Don't just tell me you got to hit him. Yeah. And that goes into saying that. [2:17:52] Everybody shouldn't be a coach, right? [2:17:55] You know, because now you're not giving me no instructions. You you going off of emotions. Right. And you just telling me, hey, you got to hit him. You not hit him. What are you doing? Yeah. [2:18:07] Now, what if T.O. would have said, what is you doing? Because you're not telling me nothing. You see me trying to hit him, but he's moving. You know, like what I what I supposed to do. I'm swinging and I'm I'm missing. Right. So tell me how to set it up to him. But there's really nothing anybody could have told him. [2:18:24] the gap was just too wide. [2:18:27] At that point. Right. Yeah. They should have studied more in training. But even then, it's like – [2:18:34] The problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills. I think when a fighter – [2:18:45] Have a good coach. [2:18:47] That's knowledgeable. [2:18:48] Thank you. [2:18:49] and they believe in a coach, [2:18:51] And a coach asked him, [2:18:53] to do something and they believe that that's going to work, they'll try it.

[2:18:59] You know, if your coach tell you, all right, listen, [2:19:02] He's stepping back. [2:19:04] every time you step in. So that means for every time he stepped back, you got to step in twice and double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range. [2:19:14] And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do, and he's successful. [2:19:19] then that's a different ball game. That's a different ball game. Because now you're listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing that's making him be more successful. [2:19:29] Technical instruction. There you go. Yeah. You can't just go, go out there and hit him. That's crazy. Tell me how to do it. I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, good Lord, what are you saying? You hear it in MMA all the time. You got to put it on him. Oh, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I got to put it on him. All this time, I was hoping it would just happen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, man, congratulations on everything. [2:19:59] generation career. So it's beautiful to watch. And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here. And I think what you've done is just fucking incredible. So congratulations on everything. And enjoy it. Enjoy all the rest of your life. You earned it all. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.

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